OEM crank & cam sensors & trigger wheel patterns

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Tilman,

Many timing lights will trigger from the low tension (drive signals) going to the coil. If that doesn't work there is a truly cheap and elegant solution. Keep the plug in the head, buy yourself a normal spark plug wire and boot, install the plug wire in between the ignition coil and the plug and.... viola, you now have a high tension wire to clamp the timing light on to.

[Tilman]

Heyho,

the simplest solution is often the best ...

Thanks for the advice!

[Mbirt]

Honda CRF450X/TRX450ER carbureted
Crank sensor type VR 2-wire
Crank trigger wheel tooth pattern 1 long, 1 short

Yamaha WR450f/YFZ450 carbureted
Crank sensor type VR 2-wire
Crank trigger wheel tooth pattern 1 long

Yamaha 2012+ WR450f/ 09+ YFZ450R/X EFI
Crank sensor type VR 2-wire
Crank trigger wheel tooth pattern 12-1, TDC is 180 deg from first tooth per PE YFZ450R/X document

Rotax 600 ACE
Crank sensor type VR 2-wire
Crank trigger wheel tooth pattern 36-2, no timing mark

Rotax DS-450
Crank sensor type VR
Crank trigger wheel tooth pattern 36-2

Suzuki LT-R450
Crank sensor type VR
Crank trigger wheel tooth pattern 18+1 (18 teeth, one is longer than the others)

[Jon Burford]

Mbirt, have you run a 600 ace?
I was looking at one, we couldn't afford it though.

[Mbirt]

I sure do, Mr. Burford, but in a much simpler application: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-qYZcQOKEc

It's unstoppable in the Clean Snowmobile Challenge because you're starting with the cleanest, quietest, most fuel efficient engine/sled and improving from there (not an easy task BTW).

In FSAE its main advantages would be the ability to keep the stock throttled intake manifold with its giant 4.6 l plenum and therefore possibly run the stock ECU if the stock TB is used ahead of the restrictor. We made 57 hp on the competition dyno with close-coupled catalysts, a quiet exhaust system, the stock intake, and minimum power enrichment. I believe it could make 70 hp tops with intake and exhaust work, a standalone, and E85. And custom clutching of the eDrive primary would be required to spin it to the speed where it could make that power. It would definitely be competitive with the best in FSAE for fuel economy.

It won't be as boost-friendly as the Genesis 80fi despite similar CR--it's designed for high BMEP at much lower speed. The issues I have with it in an FSAE application stem from the advantages of thumpers. It weighs 10 kg more than the WR450, but only has the same power potential and doesn't include a transmission. Parts are expensive and it's much more difficult to rebuild when something goes wrong.

With that said, I think it's a great option if a team is dead-set on a CVT and wants to win fuel efficiency also.

[MCoach]

Originally posted by Mbirt:
It's unstoppable in the Clean Snowmobile Challenge because you're starting with the cleanest, quietest, most fuel efficient engine/sled and improving from there (not an easy task BTW).

Looking at CSC results, I can what you mean. It looks like you guys from Kettering ran one and nearly wiped the floor, save for Clarkson who also took the top spot. Word has come down that Wisconsin might be running one this year also? Wish it was that easy to make an engine choice decision in FSAE.

Originally posted by Mbirt:
I believe it could make 70 hp tops with intake and exhaust work, a standalone, and E85. And custom clutching of the eDrive primary would be required to spin it to the speed where it could make that power. It would definitely be competitive with the best in FSAE for fuel economy.

70hp is more than enough to work with. If a team is willing to sacrifice all out power for some control strategy, it may be worth it to drop an accel score for an almost shoe in on fuel efficiency. If the drop in is as easy as it sounds, may leave time to do a lot of that without the real need on drivability and power tuning. Even a 60 hp twin would still be well enough to work with, making more than most singles, and nowhere near as strung out. Reliability may be through the roof compared to a dirt bike motor...

Hm.... light chassis, heavy motor, low power, reliable. Not a popular concept. Too many these days going for .1% when they can still pull another 10% in other areas May have to consider it.

Originally posted by Mbirt:
It weighs 10 kg more than the WR450, but only has the same power potential and doesn't include a transmission. Parts are expensive and it's much more difficult to rebuild when something goes wrong.

Parts from Rotax tend to be expensive and hard to get because they are never stocked. They have this idea that the motors are indestructable and nothing could possibly go wrong. It's just a culture thing.

Originally posted by Mbirt:
With that said, I think it's a great option if a team is dead-set on a CVT and wants to win fuel efficiency also.

Agreed.



5HP Briggs and Stratton:

1 tooth
Wasted spark

[Mbirt]

10 kg can easily be overcome with a diminutive jockey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...zEfmY&feature=relmfu

[MCoach]

Might do well in a formula car, but still looks slow on a sled...

Clicking though the Youtube sidebar I found this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...4ydKY&feature=relmfu


Wow. That's quick.