Dry Sump Oil Pumps

[Denisk31]

We used a custom C5 pump from pace products last year but we were wondering if there were any teams that use another company to supply them with a pump as the time for manufacture is longer than we estimated. This is due to the high volume of formula student teams which they deal with. Your help is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Denis

[Denisk31]

We used a custom C5 pump from pace products last year but we were wondering if there were any teams that use another company to supply them with a pump as the time for manufacture is longer than we estimated. This is due to the high volume of formula student teams which they deal with. Your help is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Denis

[Dave M]

search for it.

Ours is from www.daileyengineering.com (http://www.daileyengineering.com)

[BrianD]

We use gerotors from Nichols Portland (www.nicholsportland.com) and design the pump around them. It's pretty expensive to machine, but you learn a lot more than buying one off the shelf. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Ehsan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave M:
search for it.

Ours is from www.daileyengineering.com (http://www.daileyengineering.com) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dailey Engineering pump is a beautiful piece and the roots style is nice. But the drawback is that the price is somewhere in the $700-800 range which would make it a large percentage of your cost report. Not to mention a large chunk of cash from your budget. Pace C5 is only about $400. Then again, if you can't get the C5 and your car is designed to have a dry sump, then price becomes irrelevant.

[Andrew Nabb]

Look back in the rules on what has to be included in the cost report. The engine has that fixed cost per cc, which basically gives you freedom to spend as much as you want with no penalty on internals and some other things (with a breif list of components such as intake and exhaust that must be costed). The oil cooling system must be costed, but i do not see any part that mentions a external oil pump.

Not that I advocate dry sumping engines in our series, but at least you guys should not pay any "undue" penalties for it.

[Mike Cook]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Not that I advocate dry sumping engines in our series, .... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh do tell.

[BeaverGuy]

The dry sump does have to be costed. I don't remember what I read it on, whether it was on the SAE forum or a a sublemental email about the costing of engines but it stated that the dry sump is not essential to running the engine and needs to be costed. And with the prevelance of them now I think it would be something the judges look for.

[Andrew Nabb]

Mike,
Look around at some of the schools that have made their own wet sump oil pans (like auburn). I have seen some 1.5 inches or less in height that supposedly had no problems of running the sump dry in corners. They also allegedly held the stock volume of oil.
My point was with a few intelligent baffles and a pan that can be made in a day you can get the engine fairly low without the complication of a dry sump.
Another thought, how much does all that effort (dry sump) lower your cg? On our car lowering the engine 1 inch only lowers the fully loaded (idiot in the seat, which is how you drive it) vehicle cg .2 inch. So a good wet sump pan 1.5 inches deep vs a dry sump pan (usually .25 or .5 inch thick plate).....its worth some thought

[Erich Ohlde]

Just for clarification the '05 auburn car has a dry sump

[Mike Cook]

Our engine dropped about 2.25 inches with a dry sump. Also, if it was as easy as you say to make a wetsump with a smaller pan I would think that the manufactures would have already taken advantage of this. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with just throwing some baffles in a pan and assuming all would be good. Not to say that many many teams have not been all good with some form of wetsump or accusump or rotating pickup but damn it I just feel warm and fuzzy knowing have a drysump and everything is going to be rock solid. Just because some teams do things does not make it acceptible. Many teams do not even get their car running until competition and or do not put that much time on their engine. For us, we're running two competitions, a full season of autocross, and nationals, we need our stuff to hold up.

[Andrew Nabb]

"would think that the manufactures would have already taken advantage of this"

Mike you are aware that bikes have such deep sumps with no need of baffels because they lean into their turns. Think about the honda 600 rr sump, have you ever seen anything like that on a car?
There are tons of guys who run micro sprints with just an aluminum plate which bolts between the oil pan and block with some thoughtfully placed drainback holes. Some DSR guys do this as well, allthough the cars with lots of money usually dry sump it.

If you have time and money go for it. I was just trying to offer up another answer for the teams who might see $800 bucks as another 2 sets of tires. Course if you want to go with a turbo a dry sump might be a good idea to help with some of the "turbo oiling issues".

I was speaking of auburn's car when charlie was there....I guess that must have been 03 (I am getting old).

[Mike Cook]

I'm aware.

I think race cars should have dry sumps. But you are correct, there are many ways to skin a cat.
carry on.