Maxsym Engines

[John McCarthy]

Did anyone see an ad for this in RACE TECH last month:

http://www.maxsym.com/

I am thinking out aloud here but it seems like a good compromise between the singles and fours. I know an Aussie student spent 2 years (at least) working on an in-line twin with reasonable success, and it seems like a better option to the 3-cylinder mahle?

I haven't seen any power or weight figures yet, and wouldn't want to guess at torque curves or figures, but what do people think?

[John McCarthy]

Did anyone see an ad for this in RACE TECH last month:

http://www.maxsym.com/

I am thinking out aloud here but it seems like a good compromise between the singles and fours. I know an Aussie student spent 2 years (at least) working on an in-line twin with reasonable success, and it seems like a better option to the 3-cylinder mahle?

I haven't seen any power or weight figures yet, and wouldn't want to guess at torque curves or figures, but what do people think?

[NovaCat2005]

Power and Torque Curves (http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/documents/Powercurves.pdf)

Pricelist (http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/documents/Price_list_updated_10_01_05.pdf)

Turn down your speakers... yeah, I warned you.
GP500 Startup (http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/documents/GP500startup2.wav)

[jonno]

We've known about the mc4 project at maxsym for about 2 years now, we were seriously considering it to, at the time we were quoted around 80bhp, 30kg and lots of torque. in theory I reckon this engine could dominate Formula Student / SAE. They are planning to (but have not yet) run a restricted version of this engine so will soon have a 20mm restrictor power curve.
The only drawbacks really are the eye watering price (Maxsym have done a lot of work with us and we were sponsored by them, but i think the best kind of quote we had was around £6,000 ready to rock for 1 engine. I thought our brand new wr450 was expensive at significantly less than half that), and my other concern is with the reliability / service etc of the engine. This isn't a honda / yamaha unit that has had many many engineers spend untold hours on the design and refinement of the engine, accompanied by a global spares network for when a part breaks on the dyno...
As I said, it has the potential to dominate, but you'd have to live with those two very big negatives. How many teams actually have an entire budget of £6,000 / $12,000???

[Alastair Clarke]

We spoke to Maxsym at Autosport, and were again quoted about £6.5k per engine. We'd want to have 2 - as a spare/dyno engine. I'd reckon this prices them well out of the FSAE/Formula Student market, unless you've got some sponsors with very large pockets etc.

Alastair

[GTmule]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alastair Clarke:
We spoke to Maxsym at Autosport, and were again quoted about £6.5k per engine. We'd want to have 2 - as a spare/dyno engine. I'd reckon this prices them well out of the FSAE/Formula Student market, unless you've got some sponsors with very large pockets etc.

Alastair <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having big sponsors doesn't do the cost reort much good, though. For 12 Grand, you oughta be able to get at least a couple running CBR Bikes, snag the engine, and ebay the rest, more if theyr'e laydowns. That just seems absurd, price wise. The Motopower V8 will be selling for not much more than that, and the Cyclone about that, If I remember right.

[Travis Garrison]

engines are costed out by cc...not actual $ amount spent GTmule....

-Travis

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

arent the fsae specific Mahle engines banned now? and if they are, how about student build engines, like the U of W Washington's Viking v-8 and the drempt about flat "Porsche" 4 or 6???

[rjwoods77]

The engine costing rules are bullshit. They should be changed to reflect some sort of real costs. Not just for the engine but for changed internal components and such.

[James Waltman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drivetrainUW-Platt:
arent the fsae specific Mahle engines banned now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are you talking about? Where did you hear that?

[Garlic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rob Woods:
The engine costing rules are bullshit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So's the whole cost report. You'll see when you get there http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

These engines are cool, I just hope Maxsym doesn't sponsor a team. Right now they are out of reach and unless they come down in price to everyone you won't see one. An engine won't make a car dominate this competition, but it would be an advantage based mostly on price which is kinda against the spirit of competition.

[jack]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Pricelist <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

we just bought an engine for $500...

[GTmule]

So If my dad owned Ford he could have Ford develop a carbon blocked, 600 CC Turbo engine, then take off the turbo and sell it to me for $25 dollars, wink/nod me to the right intake/turbo/exhaust design, and It'd be the same "cost" as a 600cc bike engine off a 1978 CBR 600? That's some stupid shit, who thought that up? It should be based on the market price for the engine, as if you were going into production.

If somone says they can get production quantities for F4i's for 300 bucks, the judges call bullshit, and deduct points, seems simple enough. If someone develops their own engine, and claims to be able to make it for $300, fine, show me a projected production cost report, bulk material quotes, etc, or "bullshit" and deduct points.......

seems so simple.

Of course now I'll obsess over making my Carbon engine block/Gear casing and not be able to sleep for a few days.....sigh http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Garlic]

Please don't make the only simple part of the cost report more complicated... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Alexandre D.]

It's impossible to say how much a CBR600 or a R6 cost. A brand new engine from factory would be very expensive. The only "easy" solution is to have a list of allowed engine with a fixed price tag. This way no team could have 12000$ engines.

30kg... wtf... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[GTmule]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexandre D.:
It's impossible to say how much a CBR600 or a R6 cost. A brand new engine from factory would be very expensive. The only "easy" solution is to have a list of allowed engine with a fixed price tag. This way no team could have 12000$ engines.

30kg... wtf... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Engines could be "homologated" to a certain cost, just like they're homologated to a certain power in SCCA. That or just take 80% of the new price form a dealer.....something.

I'm all for people building their own engines, but it really would be impractical in a production/sales environment, and this seems to stretch the "spirit of the competition". (Mind you I'm all for stretching the rules, but it's no fun when you can't do it yourself http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )


Edit: Ohhhh, I just noticed where Maxsym has the oil pumps.....coooooool.....(look at the pictures on the site, I'll leave it as a suprise)

[Daves]

I once read that by 2010, all new snowmobiles will have to be powered by 4-stroke engines in the U.S. I imagine companies like Arctic Cat have already started developing performance 4-stroke V-twins to replace their 2-stroke counterparts. I think they get about 100-120 hp from the current 2-stroke 600 cc engines.

So if FSAE goes the way of Maxsym, perhaps the snowmobile industry may be able lend some help.

Also, I suppose that 30 to 35 kg estimated weight is minus the transmission. With Maxsym's optional 6-speed sequential tranny, the weight could easily increase to 57 kg like the Honda 4 cyl engines.

[Daves]

Interestingly, our current differential (with housing) is costed at over three times that of our engine/transmission combo.

[NovaCat2005]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GTmule:
Edit: Ohhhh, I just noticed where Maxsym has the oil pumps.....coooooool.....(look at the pictures on the site, I'll leave it as a suprise) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surprise! (http://www.maxsym.com/gp500-600/DrySump.htm)

What are those clips in the front of the pan holding?

[GTmule]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

What are those clips in the front of the pan holding? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The pickups (?)

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I am not sure where i heard that, maybe it was just someone's idea in a forum, don't remember, but I thought it was becuase it was not a production engine mass produced but rather one an external company build specifically for our competition, could have been someone saying they wouldnt want to run one because of lack of testing and parts availability....
or, all my crazy engineering classes are causing me to imagine things