tire data

[Hansel]

Does anyone have any tire data for all brands used.

Thanks

Go the gunners

[DJHache]

I've got some Goodyear data, I think a lot of other teams do too. You can find some of the stuff on the Goodyear website. I'd like to have Hoosier or Avon data if anybody's got any though.

[V2 - Italy]

Avon sent us some data, that are not related to their softest compounds.

Anyway you can ask them, or if you want I can share ours.

I'm looking for Hoosier data too.

V2

Firenze Race Team V2
http://www.firenzerace.too.it
DUCATI POWER at the UniversitÃ* di Firenze

[dancin stu]

I spoke to Mike Kraemer form Hoosier at the Autosport Show, he said that they do have data but have been told by the SAE not to release it to students. The reason he gave was that the SAE expect us to be able to generate reasonable data using strain gauges and the like. He said if we could provide some data on the tyres, he would be able to supply their data. Bit of a tough one though, which data do you trust, if you've gone to the trouble of obtaining your own, how close is the supplied data? bearing in mind the Goodyear and Avon dta available........

[vinHonda]

we have data on all compounds used. but sharing it is like say'n "sure, let's give all the teams the advantage we invested time in!"

It costs a lot of money to generate tyre data. But the experience is well worth it.

Vinh

University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
www.fsae.utoronto.ca (http://www.fsae.utoronto.ca)

[dancin stu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vinHonda:
we have data on all compounds used. but sharing it is like say'n "sure, let's give all the teams the advantage we invested time in!"

It costs a lot of money to generate tyre data. But the experience is well worth it.

Vinh

University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
http://www.fsae.utoronto.ca<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vinh, have you ever used strain gauges and datalogging to generate tyre data, if so, how close was it to the data you got form the Flatrac?

[IsheeM]

What measurement method or tools have you guys used to attain tire data and what are most teams looking to measure?
Thanks,
Michael

[V2 - Italy]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif someone asked me for the Avon data, but I deleted that email. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If you want, send me again.

Daniele

[vinHonda]

Never used strain gauges to generate tyre data.

MTS Flat Trac Tyre Testing Machine.

Run slip angles from -15 to 15, various vertical loads, and various camber angles and sweeps of all. All vs. lateral force. Lots of data generated. But still.....only a little window into what a tyre actually does!

Cheers,

Vinh

[IsheeM]

vinHonda,
Do you have this information for a Goodyear you would be willing to share?
Thanks,
Michael

[Steve-Imperial]

This may sound amateurish but: How important is tyre data in desiging a suspension system? How will it affect your design? Is it mainly in the area of roll stiffnesses front-rear and how that affects weight transfer. I guess the camber angle will have a fair effect. Is it completely wrong to assume that tyres will give their best grip when almost vertical?

[Vector006]

Steve.

Different tires work best at different camber angles, wide tires dont like camber too much... for the Goodyears, it looks like they like 1.5? or so of negative camber for max lateral force. Im sure the Hoosiers are similar.
And yes, i would say tire data comes first in suspension design. Every suspension book you'll read has tires in the first chapter...

-jer

[vinHonda]

We are designing race cars. Every suspension book has Tyres as its first chapter.

Thus designing FSAE cars w/o data starts your design off with an assumption.

SO, sharing our exxpennnnsive tyre data would be like say'n: here, have our crown jewel for design and on-track performance!

Sorry.

Vinh

[ben]

I would agree with Vin. The tyre data they have was hard to come buy both practicaly and financially.

If you're not going to run flat-trac tests any tyre data out there is going to be of limited use because none of it has temperatures or enough details of the test procedure used.

I realised very early on that I wasn't going to be able to do very accurate simulation or design synthesis in this area so I've just made some common sense assumptions and spent most of my time ensuring that our car is as integrated from a systems point of view as possible to get more performance in that area, which I can assess quantitatively.

Ben

[Steve-Imperial]

I have also followed this common sense approach so far. Unfortunately the testing of our old car with strain gauges etc to generate useful data will only take place this weekend. This is going to be too late to have an effect on the design of the suspension for the n ew car!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[dancin stu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve-Imperial:
I have also followed this common sense approach so far. Unfortunately the testing of our old car with strain gauges etc to generate useful data will only take place this weekend. This is going to be too late to have an effect on the design of the suspension for the n ew car!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve, are you getting an external company to help with your strain gauging. We did some last weekend, a technical partner let us have some prototype equipment, unfortuantely it was raining hard, so the forces were not very high

[Steve-Imperial]

Nope we're doing it all ourselves, all the strain gauging and datalogging equipment has been borrowed from various college departments. I dont know if its basic equipment or not. One of our fourth year team members is doing the data collection for his main project.

Wish us luck for our test at Bruntingthorpe on sunday!

[vinHonda]

Ben makes a very good point! Spending time intergrating, packaging and building a soundly engineered car to gain performance is just as equally important.

The MP4-19 was sooo embarrasingly slow in Melbourne last weekend, because McLaren pushed the limit to the point where the car was losing stiffness. And Mike Gascoyne at Toyota says thie TF04 was packaged so horribly they need to get their Cg lower! Goes to show you that tyres isn't necessarily EVERYTHING.

Although, it IS, when you got everything else right!

Cheers everyone. I hope the weather in the UK is as sunny as I remember it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif we look forward to go'n back!

Vinh

[ben]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve-Imperial:
I have also followed this common sense approach so far. Unfortunately the testing of our old car with strain gauges etc to generate useful data will only take place this weekend. This is going to be too late to have an effect on the design of the suspension for the n ew car!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're not building the new car for this year, why are you freezing the suspension design so early?

Ben

[Steve-Imperial]

"So early"?? Its only a few months till the competition and also in that time I have exams, projects..... Well to be honest it isnt totally frozen just yet, upright is totally frozen, chassis pick ups pretty much frozen, can still change the link lengths. As I said before we plan on getting the bulk of the manufacturing done by the time of the competition so that next year the guys can get it finished fast and start testing. By the 2005 competition we should have a kick ass car! Following our past experience we see testing and a lot of it as vital in achieving a good result. Whats the point in building a car in a year, having limited amounts of testing and then starting another car straight away before you reach the maximum potential of the previous car? I guess it depends on how early you finish the car as to how close to the max potential you get. But with any limit on testing time then youre taking a massive risk as if something critical breaks you could lose a lot of running time!

[IsheeM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vinHonda:


SO, sharing our exxpennnnsive tyre data would be like say'n: here, have our crown jewel for design and on-track performance!

Sorry.

Vinh <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I figured as much, but whats it hurt to ask.

Michael

[ben]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve-Imperial:
"So early"?? Its only a few months till the competition and also in that time I have exams, projects..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This goes back to my point about Class 2 being slightly pointless.

Simply for the sake of having some hardware at competition in July, you are freezing the design possibly only weeks before you will have some data that could teach you a huge amount about how the car works and prompt you to redesign the car.

Why don't you use that data to demolish the Class 3 competition and build what you learn into the car for 2004?

BTW if your data points you away from the approach you've taken you won't want to use it in the design event anyway.

Ben