Not inject, Not ignition.

[CMDM]

In this year, we are using the cbr600 with Motec M4.
But, we didn't run the engine until now.
Anybody who has many experience about motec EMS, help us.
I thnik MOTEC's main setup is not accurate.
I need that ECU setting data.
Thanks

Seunghyeon Kim
2003 YNU captain

engine : cbr 600f3 ( 49 states type, invalve open : BTDC 15")
crank sensor : 60 tooth (with 2 missing tooth) magnetic type

position : 60" pass missing tooth (at #1 cylinder TDC)



I I I I I I I I I : : I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I (rotation direction--&gthttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I : :
I-->MISING TOOTH: :
: I
: I-->(CRANK SENSOR POSITION)
:
:
:--> TDC sensor position

:<----------------->:
60"
TDC sensor : Hall type

EMS : MOTEC M4

present state : not ignition , not inject (but test is ok!)

[Kevin Hall]

Are you running the 60-2 tooth wheel inside the case? If so, those engines have trouble running like that. The sensors are too big to give an accurate signal. We switched to a 6" external, and are going to reduce to a 4" soon. Our signal is 10 times better. Never skips a beat

Kevin Hall
University of Saskatchewan
Engine Guy in Need of Help

[CMDM]

We use the 8/3" wheel from electromotive.
I think It's not too big.
thanks for reply.

Crank sensor position --> 11th tooth pass missing tooth (60"), this position is #1 cylinder compression TDC.

TDC sensor position --> 7th tooth pass missing tooth , this position is BTDC 30"

Crank sensor(Ref) output voltage is 50mv from oscilloscope.
TDC sensor output voltage is 1V.



Try It Again!

[This message was edited by CMDM on April 15, 2003 at 07:28 AM.]

[Tony]

We've been using the stock F4i crank trigger wheel and pickup as the REF signal for our Motec EMS without a problem.

Tony Do
Kettering University FSAE

[Kevin Hall]

That 8/3" wheel is too small. The resolution of the small teeth is too much for a sensor to accurately pick up. We also used that size wheel for a year, and had poor results. The 6" wheel is excellent. We do not run TDC sensor, just the crank position, on tooth 11.

Kevin Hall
University of Saskatchewan
Engine Guy in Need of Help

[Kevin Hall]

The 50mV signal is too small for the computer to recognize. I recall 200mV is about right. Try adjusting sensor gap to increase voltage. Also, check polarity.

Kevin Hall
University of Saskatchewan
Engine Guy in Need of Help

[Richard Lewis]

6" trigger wheel? Kevin, where did you find a place to mount this? Obviously you had to go external... how did you pass the mount for the trigger wheel from the crank to the outside of the engine without incurring leaks?

-------------------------
UVIC Formula SAE Team
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[Kevin Hall]

I should get some pics online. Its fairly simple.....

We are running the F4, so there is an access hole right there.

1)The crank is master splined for the crank trigger, and has a matching spline for the timing sprocket. We used a spare sprocket for the spline, and shrunk fit a shaft onto it.

2)We have a spare blown engine that spent a day on the mill bed. We dialed in the case, and bored out the inspection hole so that it was perfectly concentric with the crank. We mounted a bearing in that hole with an aluminum block.

3)The shaft comes out the side of the engine, and has the wheel mounted to it via an aluminum hub.

4) A through bolt holds the shaft to the crank similar to other F4 setups.

5)The sensor is held in place by a fancy little CNC bracket

6)One piece of 1/8" * 3/4" flat bar bent around for scatter shielding

7) Lots o' Loctite to ensure no slipping or leaking

It works great. I'll take pics and post them for you. It doesn't look too out of place. JUST REMEMBER THE LOCTITE!! Without it, you have a 6" cicrular saw blade running 13000 RPM without anything to guarantee its held in place. Yeah, we have redundant safety measures, but it's never moved. A dead PCV valve will cause a small leak here or there, but once that was sealed perfectly, that PCV valve blew out the valve cover gasket!!

I recommend a bigger wheel to anyone who has to run the 60 tooth wheel (Peter Visser suggested 3 1/2 or 4", but we had a 6", and money was tight, so we made it work for this year. Our RPM signal is perfect, and we don't have to worry about sensors giving problems in the oil, and it is far easier to gap the sensor in open air!

Good luck http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kevin Hall
University of Saskatchewan
Engine Guy in Need of Help

[Richard Lewis]

Kevin, check you private messages... I'm not sure about your splining situation, but the rest is very similar to what I had made. My plan was to use a shaft seal on the extension, but a sealed bearing sounds like a much more feasible solution. (especially at 12,000+ rpm)

Got a few things to iron out here, thanks for the prompt reply.

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UVIC Formula SAE Team
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http://uvic.fsae.ca