open power train regs with "energy flow" power limitation

[Pete Marsh]

Posted February 13, 2010 03:42 AM Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by Chapo:
I think the idea of a specified energy flow and then open engine regulations is a fantastic idea. Personally I think this is the way F1 should be going, open engine regulations based around a specified energy flow would encourage lots of innovation and could then have it transplanted to the auto industry. Seeing this kind of regulation in FSAE would also allow the introduction of electric cars as well as alternate fuels. This would encourage people to look for a more efficient engine type, but also a more efficient energy storage medium. Thats my 2c on that.

@kirby: Any chance of getting some details into what you will be introducing this year?



Not my team (or my old one, as far as I'm aware). I'm not out to ruin surprises. I'll let the team in question comment if they feel like it. Wink


As for your comments about energy flow. Similar concepts are covered in Class 1A of FS-UK. Including a wide range of fuels and propulsion systems (conventional, hybrid, pure electric etc), furthermore they get rid of the costing rules and replace it with "sustainability" event. Fuel economy is measured in emissions.

Here is a quick excerpt addressing the different energies of fuels:

The restrictor must have a maximum diameter of:
- Gasoline fueled cars – 12.9 mm (0.508 inch)
- E-85 fueled cars – 12.3 mm (0.483 inch)
- Diesel fueled cars – no inlet restrictor required
- LPG fuelled cars – 13.4 mm (0.527 inch)
- CNG fuelled cars – 13.8 mm (0.543 inch)
- Hydrogen fuelled cars – no inlet restrictor required


I know they mentioned a potential electric competition at FSAE-A in the future. But I'd really like to see Class 1A or a derivative introduced, I think a lot of teams here would be very interested in this rule set.


---------------------------
2006 QUT Motorsport
2008 University of Waterloo FSAE
2009-2010 University of Adelaide FSAE



This is an interesting topic that came up in another thread. In addition to IC I believe such a concept should include batteries and fuel cells, and solar all competing against eachother on a level playing field.

Pete

[Pete Marsh]

Posted February 13, 2010 03:42 AM Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by Chapo:
I think the idea of a specified energy flow and then open engine regulations is a fantastic idea. Personally I think this is the way F1 should be going, open engine regulations based around a specified energy flow would encourage lots of innovation and could then have it transplanted to the auto industry. Seeing this kind of regulation in FSAE would also allow the introduction of electric cars as well as alternate fuels. This would encourage people to look for a more efficient engine type, but also a more efficient energy storage medium. Thats my 2c on that.

@kirby: Any chance of getting some details into what you will be introducing this year?



Not my team (or my old one, as far as I'm aware). I'm not out to ruin surprises. I'll let the team in question comment if they feel like it. Wink


As for your comments about energy flow. Similar concepts are covered in Class 1A of FS-UK. Including a wide range of fuels and propulsion systems (conventional, hybrid, pure electric etc), furthermore they get rid of the costing rules and replace it with "sustainability" event. Fuel economy is measured in emissions.

Here is a quick excerpt addressing the different energies of fuels:

The restrictor must have a maximum diameter of:
- Gasoline fueled cars – 12.9 mm (0.508 inch)
- E-85 fueled cars – 12.3 mm (0.483 inch)
- Diesel fueled cars – no inlet restrictor required
- LPG fuelled cars – 13.4 mm (0.527 inch)
- CNG fuelled cars – 13.8 mm (0.543 inch)
- Hydrogen fuelled cars – no inlet restrictor required


I know they mentioned a potential electric competition at FSAE-A in the future. But I'd really like to see Class 1A or a derivative introduced, I think a lot of teams here would be very interested in this rule set.


---------------------------
2006 QUT Motorsport
2008 University of Waterloo FSAE
2009-2010 University of Adelaide FSAE



This is an interesting topic that came up in another thread. In addition to IC I believe such a concept should include batteries and fuel cells, and solar all competing against eachother on a level playing field.

Pete

[TorqueWrench]

Wait, is this actually happening at FS-UK? If so, I am jealous. I actually didn't realize that point until after I was done writing the rest of it.

To be honest, I think hydrogen fuel cars, other fuel cells, batteries and solar belong in Formula Hybrid. That is kinda the point of that competition, but I know this is a US only event.

I know one of the main reasons that we are all limited to 93, 100 and E85 is for logistics on SAE's part. Right now they need to secure supplies of three fuel types and they need three different groups of people (I know its actually 2 at MIS) keeping track of what fuel is dispensed to what teams with what type.

A diesel FSAE car has been discussed a lot on our team. Our snowmobile team runs a turbo diesel snowmobile in the Clean Snowmobile Competition and the thing is just amazing. Until this year their competition had the same gasoline engine displacement as FSAE does, but diesels were allowed to be up to 1L. Their competition now has a horsepower limit, which is actually helping them out even more. With everyone being so concerned about fuel economy and emissions, the thing came in second in emissions and has gotten over 40mpg in testing. It gets better when that 800lb sled has enough torque to lift the skis off the line with that fuel economy and can run for several hundred miles without refueling.

Restrictor size can be adjusted fairly easily based off of energy released during a complete combustion cycle (just need to know stoich and energy release). Now this doesn't mean the energy released is equal for all fuel types assuming all the fuel is burned (it isn't right now), but it at least makes sure one fuel type from a power standpoint doesn't have a huge advantage.