Wow.. TTC budget spreadsheet accurate?

[exFSAE]

After 3 rounds of testing there's still $30,000+ remaining in the account?

That's insane.

[lporter]

I noticed that too. Hopefully that means we can convince them to test more tires in the next round, I would love to see data on rains as well as the new Hoosier R25B compound.

[ben]

When's the next round likely to be? We've got a tyre that should be a bit further along in development by then.

We should have two UK Unis using it this year plus a few more from Germany.

Our policy is to make the latest spec available to all from next year but to subsidise any testing done on our behalf by an teams.

Birmingham and Herts have tested the first spec and it was worse than the existing Avojn. A softer construction and compound version should be testing in mid-April.

Ben

[Chuckster]

R25B?
-That should be interesting.

Some say the R25B is the R25A without one of the ingredients which Hoosier could no longer obtain.

Still, it might be better in some way

[ben]

Originally posted by Chuckster:
R25B?
-That should be interesting.

Some say the R25B is the R25A without one of the ingredients which Hoosier could no longer obtain.

Still, it might be better in some way

Any more info on that?

There are European regs coming in to ban free aromatic oil in rubber polymers, which is currently causing a lot of hassle. It should affect anything sold in Europe.

Ben

[duckei]

The new R25B's would be nice, hopefully they plan to do the round over the summer.

[exFSAE]

You would think the Hoosier is same construction as was tested in TTC Round 3, with different cap compound. But yea, would be good to know how B stacks up to A in terms of grip, giveup, stiffness..

Maybe could just drop a line to Speer there at Hoosier and ask him?

[Maverik]

The R25b is the same compound as the R25a, all the chemicals are the same. However, one of the chemicals (like sulphur) supplied by "Company A" is no longer available so "Company B" now supplies it. I was told there is no change in formulation or mechanical properties and there won't be until a new number compound comes out... ie r29a or something like that.

[DougMilliken]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ben:
When's the next round likely to be? <snipped>

Hello to fsae.com,

Dr Kasprzak has a heavy workload this year and he's asked me to take over some of the TTC work that he's done in the past--so I just joined fsae.com. I can see that there are a lot of TTC related threads, and I won't have time to watch them all, but I'll do what I can.

In answer to the question above, we are all pretty busy and probably the *earliest* that Round 4 could be organized will be sometime this summer (2008). When we get closer, we will be asking for suggestions about what to test.

Re: the subject of this thread, yes, the TTC has been successful far beyond our initial estimates. We recently passed another milestone of 150 members and I've heard that more intend to join in the near future. Does anyone have any idea of the number of active FSAE/FStudent teams worldwide?

-- Doug Milliken for the TTC

[J. Vinella]

Doug,

It is a pleasure to have you join the forums. 150 members is amazing. As far as how many teams worldwide I would guesstimate 300 total including new upstart teams. ~50% participating in the TTC is great.

We all thank you for your time. The forum members are very opinionated and I am sure the topic of what tires to test will raise quite a debate.

[Chuckster]

Originally posted by Maverik:
The R25b is the same compound as the R25a, all the chemicals are the same. However, one of the chemicals (like sulphur) supplied by "Company A" is no longer available so "Company B" now supplies it. I was told there is no change in formulation or mechanical properties and there won't be until a new number compound comes out... ie r29a or something like that.

Well, I got a different story among the all the various people at the factory as well as additional versions talking to dealers. The stories change over time too.

Talking to racers introduces another set of stories-but those may be more important since they relate directly to the bottom line: performance. The first Atlantic guys to use the R25B's in the radial FA tires said the R25B took a lap or 2 more to heat up than the A. Bear in mind, they are comparing a radial to a semi-radial. The semi radial C3000 may have more internal friction.

Several years ago now-the factory told me the B was "supposed to be a longer lasting compound to give racers more tire life with the more expensive tires". That would tie in with FA testing. But maybe it was just a convenient factory theory to fit scanty test data available to the factory.

Factory and dealers have a common story regarding this on the bias plies now available in R25B (and old stock R25A:

"Don't mix As and Bs in an axle set."

Remember, this isn't mixing radials and bias plies now. This indicates they just may not know if they are equivalent at the factory-

In solo at the 2007 Nationals, at least one front runnner had As on one end of the car and Bs on the other. Inconclusion evaluation. This guy did win his class however. Therefore, if there is an A vs. B difference, it may be fairly subtle.

Companies are in business to make a profit; the factory A vs. B stories may have been influenced by a desire to keeping A sellable to get rid of old stock-or it may be that Bs aren't as good for some reason. Who knows?

Testing by racers is the only real answer that matters to us in the end.

Jumping to radial vs semi-radial now:
No one in solo appears to love the Hoosier radial. The FA version are the only ones that Hoosier have truly working right (read: competitive to GY radial) in road racing. Some who have tried them on Solo XP cars and whatever don't like the driving characteristic. Too finicky. Went back to bias ply.

Similar story in the UK with hillclimbing. Avon/Cooper has had radials for quite a few years now and penetration has settled out at about 50%-half the racers will not use them and stay with bias ply.

Chuck

[ben]

Chuck - when you say semi-radial do you mean bias belted?

Ben