Forced Induction

[Ché]

Was wondering if anybody had tried boosting their engines with something like this?

http://www.turbozet.com/

[Ché]

Was wondering if anybody had tried boosting their engines with something like this?

http://www.turbozet.com/

[Chris Davin]

It appears to be some type of electric supercharger, but the english on that website is so poor I can't understand what they're trying to say.

The electric supercharger isn't a new concept, and might be practical for FSAE. However, many FSAE cars have insufficient alternators to power all the electrical systems, so adding an electric supercharger might present problems for that reason.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

pretty sure a team that placed high in endurance ran it in the last few year, post about it somewheres on here.....

[James Waltman]

This is what happens when you let the suspension guy look into forced induction.
This article has some more info. (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0237/article.html?popularArticle)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> From that article:
"Reaction of all technical experts who examined the Twin Turbo Zet: Extreme mirth"� <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ch̩, I'll authorize the money so you can buy one Рbut only if you use it to cool the computer while you're running FEA on your suspension. Electric motors for forced induction can be pretty cool but this isn't it.

Picture from the article:
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i2/0237_4mg.jpg

[Salvatore Amato]

I think TurboZet is just for generating swirl in the intake. From the picture it is not a real supercharger. The kid of product like this is sold in markets like Philippines where new car customers do not understand.
So you have to be ignorant or an idiot to buy one of this turbozet. so maybe we can expect one idiot team in fSAE to buy one. Mr Rob can power it with his hot air.
Salamander
ps, I am not so big an idiot as he said as I did not buy a turbozet

[Chris Davin]

Hm, looks to be the same sort of thing as those magnets you put in your gas tank, to align the fuel molecules so they burn better.

Besides, I'd rather be running a real turbo. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Daniel Hynum]

Speaking of running a "real" turbo, how do you folks at Cornell like the IHI compared to the BorgWarner unit? Are you switching again this year or are you sticking with IHI?

[DanO]

One thing people dont realize is power is not free.

You need one hell of an electric motor to produce the flow and pressure required and even then you dont have a large enough electrical supply.

Just look at the performance maps of any turbocharger or supercharger and you will see the power needed for the flows and pressures.

[Denny Trimble]

Right, turbochargers are more efficient than superchargers because they use exhaust energy rather than crankshaft energy to compress the charge.

Electric superchargers may have advantages in tuneability and response time, but the losses going from mechanical (crankshaft) to electrical (alternator) back to mechanical (electric motor) energy must be considerable.

Now, a supercharger with a cone-ring CVT programmed by GPS... it's past my bedtime.

[jack]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> One thing people dont realize is power is not free. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


From the Website:

a little 60mm diameter PC cooling fan flows only about 18 cubic feet per minute. So, just to flow the amount of air that this naturally aspirated, 3 litre engine needs, you'd need an array of fourteen 60mm fans working flat-out. And that's without creating any boost at all....

[Scott Harsila]

I posted about cal poly a week or two ago. They ran some sort of (real)electric supercharger powered by a dedicated GM alternator(100A) driven with a belt on the crank shaft in 2000. So yes it takes a lot of electrical power, much more than 20amps or whatever the stock magneto puts out. But how much does an alternator plus a supercharger weigh, probably 20lb, more than I would want to add that is for sure.

[Chris Davin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hynumda:
Speaking of running a "real" turbo, how do you folks at Cornell like the IHI compared to the BorgWarner unit? Are you switching again this year or are you sticking with IHI? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. We're definitely considering turbos from many manufacturers, but we are working on developing a way to better-evaluate turbocharger performance. The jury is still out.

[MikeWaggoner at UW]

One thing about using electric superchargers and alternators is that at ~90% throttle (or whatever you want), you can fool the alternator into turning off, so if you oversize the alternator enough that it can charge adequately at partial throttle, the parasitic losses can be eliminated (which can't be done with a belt or exhaust driven system).

[TA]

Actually, you can cut parasitic losses using a mechanically driven supercharger. Toyota used an electric clutch, quite similar to an AC clutch, on the supercharged MR2 to disengage the supercharger for better part throttle economy.

You could also cobble together some sort of centrifugal (centripetal? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) clutch mechanism to engage or disengage the supercharger drive.

Cheers, Ted

[jack]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> You could also cobble together some sort of centrifugal (centripetal? Smile) clutch mechanism to engage or disengage the supercharger drive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

--like on Mad Max's Ford Falcon?? yeah, that would be so cool...

[Marshall Grice]

Yeah we(cal poly pomona) ran an elecrtic super charger in 2000. It didn't really give us any more peak power due to the restrictor, but we made a lot more mid range power. The whole system was heavy though. We used a gm high output alt (140 amp) and even that was barely enough. And yes we had a wot switch that turned off the alternator for max effect. That car was many things...light wasn't one of them.

*edit: I forgot to say that we have the back up supercharger from 2000 for sale. Never used...if anyone is interested.

[Foote]

What kind of blower and electric motor did you guys use? I've been seriously thinking about an electric turbocharger. I think one would be really cool if you could get it to work right. Did you have a battery in the system somewhere? I'm very interested in your setup.

[Marshall Grice]

It's a turbodyne centrifugal unit. The motor is integrated with the blower. We were using a motorcycle battery. a better option would have probably been a dry/gel cell battery. Something with a little more umph then what we had, but it worked quite well.

[Chris Davin]

To all of you considering some kind of electric supercharger, I would advise you to be mindful of the new rule prohibiting hybrid powertrains using on-board energy storage. It appears to me that an electric supercharger with a battery, especially one with a WOT switch, would be illegal, but of course it's up to you to interpret the rules.

[rjwoods77]

Why wouldnt you just use a normal belt driven supercharger if you are going to go through the trouble of alternator, batteries, wiring, etc. Roots, screwcharger, centrifugal doesnt really matter. There are a ton of small roots blowers(12-60 cubic inch) out there. Just got to look in the right spots. They are more efficient than normal roots blowers because the rotor diameters are way smaller and the tips dont get close to supersonic like the big ones do. Its a neat idea and all but you dont really have to go out of your way to charge the motor when simpler setups are already there.

[rjwoods77]

Also, even though it was fake, the on/off supercharger Mad Max had was too pimp.