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Thread: How much did you score at the cost discussion???

  1. #1
    Hi this was our first year at the comp and we did pretty good at the cost report, we scored a 19 out of 20 at the discussion, we were wondering what usually people score?
    Also what do you put in your cost report besides what is specified in the powerpoint file on sae-org?? what makes your cost report exced from the regular cost report, thanks!!!
    Team Formula SAE UCV 2003-2007
    Kettering University 2008

    I'm still looking of ways to get there faster!
    www.fsaeucv.org

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Birmingham, England
    Posts
    765
    We were top 25% in Detroit last year and won the cost event in the UK.

    In both comps we scored 100% in the discussion.

    With 1 or 2 exceptions we had an engineering drawing or scalable photograph of every component on the car. I think it really helps to be able to see a component rather than just a manufacturing summary.

    Unfortunately the overall cost makes a big difference and it is important to be 'creative' when costing components. Don't forget to ask for the cost of the component when its manufactured in a large batch, this can bring the total down a lot.

    Ben
    Tyre Analysis Engineer - Caterham F1 Team
    Alumnus of University of Birmingham
    www.ubracing.co.uk and Formula Student Design Judge

  3. #3
    Originally posted by ben:
    Don't forget to ask for the cost of the component when its manufactured in a large batch, this can bring the total down a lot.
    Ben,
    You aren't suggesting that teams cheat are you?
    Rule 4.3.4.2 (B)
    The full retail cost of parts must be used in the Cost Report. Discounted
    or wholesale prices are not to be used. If a part is used, donated or
    discounted, the full retail cost for said part must still be given.
    James Waltman
    VRI at WWU Alumn
    FSAE 01 to 05
    http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/

  4. #4
    Well look at this example, we got our turbo from garret, when the delivery was made there was not a receip or something just a kind of letter of donation, so i send an e-mail to garret and the already had a spec sheet of how much will the turbo cost if they sold 80 turbos a month, 1000 a year, and they never told us the actual retail price, so i would not call that cheating, would you???
    And i think we just did it on that particular part, or we did not??? jejeje I really dont know.
    I think what ben is saying works great at the presentation event, if you are to cought up doing this in the cost you'l get the price of the car really up couse of the judges price "Correction" jajaja so be carefull
    Team Formula SAE UCV 2003-2007
    Kettering University 2008

    I'm still looking of ways to get there faster!
    www.fsaeucv.org

  5. #5
    Cost really isn't that significant to the competition as a whole.

    We placed first in cost this year, with 94.6 points. We had an industrial/low performance engine and not much more than that... no electronics, lots of off-the shelf ATV parts, nothing exotic.

    That being said, only 30 of the 100 possible points in cost are actually based on the COST of your car. So other than saving weight (by lack of components), complexity, and room in your team's budget, there's really not that much incentive for building a cheap car.

    Not to pick on Carnegie Mellon (my undergrad stomping grounds) but just as an example, they placed 70th in cost, yet still earned 74.7 points. So the difference between 1st and 70th was a whopping 20 pts. Points are points, but I wouldn't put much effort into dropping the cost of the components in your car. Go for all 70 of the available points for the report/inspection/discussion, but don't do much beyond that.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Birmingham, England
    Posts
    765
    Originally posted by James Waltman:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ben:
    Don't forget to ask for the cost of the component when its manufactured in a large batch, this can bring the total down a lot.
    Ben,
    You aren't suggesting that teams cheat are you?
    Rule 4.3.4.2 (B)
    The full retail cost of parts must be used in the Cost Report. Discounted
    or wholesale prices are not to be used. If a part is used, donated or
    discounted, the full retail cost for said part must still be given.
    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, I'm saying many people get parts custom made so the idea of a 'retail price' is up for discussion.

    Cheating and exploiting the limit of the rules are surely two different things?

    Ben
    Tyre Analysis Engineer - Caterham F1 Team
    Alumnus of University of Birmingham
    www.ubracing.co.uk and Formula Student Design Judge

  7. #7
    Yeah sorry. I agree with you. I thought you were talking about parts that most teams purchase: shocks, steering racks, brake calipers, etc.

    What you are talking about is taken into account in the rules (end of 4.3.6.1(D)). I wouldn't even call it exploitation - just good manufacturing engineering.
    James Waltman
    VRI at WWU Alumn
    FSAE 01 to 05
    http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/

  8. #8
    We were told (by a cost judge) to 'optimize' our costs to match methods that would be used in production.
    We were also told that the cost addendum is really only for items that make the overall cost cheaper and we should leave everything else off (including the CF seat we used instead of the fibreglass one in the cost report)

    After 3 years of serious attempts to do the cost report correctly, I have lost all respect for that part of the competition. I guess its a good thing I'm not doing it again. (I still have a rant about design to unleash)
    Ben Beacock
    Alumni
    '03,'04(AWD),'05(AWD) Gryphon Racing - University of Guelph

  9. #9
    Originally posted by ben:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James Waltman:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ben:
    Don't forget to ask for the cost of the component when its manufactured in a large batch, this can bring the total down a lot.
    Ben,
    You aren't suggesting that teams cheat are you?
    Rule 4.3.4.2 (B)
    The full retail cost of parts must be used in the Cost Report. Discounted
    or wholesale prices are not to be used. If a part is used, donated or
    discounted, the full retail cost for said part must still be given.
    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, I'm saying many people get parts custom made so the idea of a 'retail price' is up for discussion.

    Cheating and exploiting the limit of the rules are surely two different things?

    Ben </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I would not call it exploitation, I would call it reading the rules.

  10. #10
    we scored 20/20 on presentation day.

    with regards to making the report itself better, its just a matter of following the rule that the binder must be less than 5 inches thick. last year, it was barely an inch, and we got railed in the report scoring (like 9 out of 30 i think). this year, it was closer to 2 inches, and we were up to like 24 out of 30.

    Include receipts for EVERYTHING.
    If you made a part, put a process description and a drawing in (usually you do this anyway when you go to machine it, so just make good copies).
    Add a sexy cover letter, some nice dividers, table of contents (standard technical report stuff), and you're money.
    Mike Miles
    Carnegie Mellon SAE/Carnegie Mellon Racing -- Formula SAE 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006

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