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Thread: IR view of front tyres

  1. #11
    It's the surface that grips the track.
    How can it not matter !!!
    Cheers, Tony

  2. #12
    Originally posted by Warpspeed:
    It's the surface that grips the track.
    How can it not matter !!!
    Oh I see. So the tire generates forces through an entirely flat 2-dimensional plane, like the wood block on an inclined plane in high school physics class?

    A good picture:

  3. #13
    Try using teflon coated tires and tell me if it has any effect at all on tire dynamics.
    Cheers, Tony

  4. #14
    Originally posted by Warpspeed:
    It's the surface that grips the track.
    How can it not matter !!!
    For FSAE-spec compounds on rough surfaces, the hysteretic component of friction >> the adhesive component of friction.

    From both a "how do I get these tires to grip during an autocross run" as well as a "how do I get these tires to last through a full endurance" core temp is what you want to be concerned with.

  5. #15
    Originally posted by Warpspeed:
    Try using teflon coated tires and tell me if it has any effect at all on tire dynamics.
    The teflon will scrub off pretty quick.

  6. #16
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    GAH! What kind of engineers are you guys?!?!?

    No one has asked about the scale of the colors!!!
    "Man, I need to practice more!" - Kenny Wallace
    "Try not to have a good time... this is supposed to be educational." - Charles M Schulz
    -OptimumG 2005-2006
    -Turner Motorsports 2008-2009
    -Black Swan Racing 2010 & 2011 Team and Driver's Champions
    -HPD Race Engineer 2011-2014
    -Currently Freelance Data/Race Engineer

  7. #17
    Originally posted by js10coastr:
    GAH! What kind of engineers are you guys?!?!?

    No one has asked about the scale of the colors!!!
    Then you obviously didn't read my post correctly.
    Tristan
    Delft '09 Team member, '10 - Chief Electronics
    'now' (Hardware) Security Engineer

  8. #18
    I agree with the both of you. The images tell us nothing with respect to the temperature or the temperature gradient(over time, not over the surface), because it could be that the change in colour we see in the video is corresponding to 0.1C. We could speculate that the part in the rear is the exhaust, which is deep red. We still don't know, if the applied scale is linear. Given that the cooler seems do not get any color at all, the colouring could start at 80C or above. The driver does also not show any signs of "heat".

    The only thing we can conclude is how the temperature is distributed over the surface under load, which is what Pat was relating to in his post.
    Regards,

    Tobias

    Formula Student Germany
    FSE Rules & Organisation
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    Not many people know the difference between resolution and accuracy.

  9. #19
    Originally posted by Warpspeed:
    Try using teflon coated tires and tell me if it has any effect at all on tire dynamics.
    Sure, it will do "something." There are some traditional Coulomb friction forces at work which would be reduced, and more importantly the thicker the layer the less tread rubber that can be engaged in shear. That in itself would be a telling experiment. Have one tire untreated, one built with a 0.001" thick Teflon layer, another 0.010" and one more at 0.030". If the only thing that matters is a nearly pure 2D interface, then the thickness would have no bearing. I think you would find that this is not the case.

    Of course that's fairly academic to consider as neither you nor I will be building special tires any time soon. However, it's been pretty well established/tested/proven in industry and academia that a large portion (perhaps we should say the largest portion) of in-plane tire forces are created by energy dissipation through a depth of tread rubber.

    What you have to ask yourself is whether or not what you see from IR measurement of the VERY surface of the tread is indicative of the "operating depth."

  10. #20
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    Originally posted by BeunMan:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by js10coastr:
    GAH! What kind of engineers are you guys?!?!?

    No one has asked about the scale of the colors!!!
    Then you obviously didn't read my post correctly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is correct... however I read this one
    "Man, I need to practice more!" - Kenny Wallace
    "Try not to have a good time... this is supposed to be educational." - Charles M Schulz
    -OptimumG 2005-2006
    -Turner Motorsports 2008-2009
    -Black Swan Racing 2010 & 2011 Team and Driver's Champions
    -HPD Race Engineer 2011-2014
    -Currently Freelance Data/Race Engineer

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