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Thread: Two engines controlled by one ECU POSSIBLE???

  1. #1
    I want to know is it possible to control separate two engines (singles or maybe twins not bigger than 300cc each) with fuel injection, running with a common intake (20mm restricted) with a common ECU.

    I would be grateful if you could provide me with some information such as:

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE>Is it technically possible?

    Could you provide us with such ECU (rough estimate of cost for custom ecu's)?

    Is this a good idea?[/list]
    I would need something like: a custom ECU which could control both engines independently, it would possibly have to have two crank sensors inputs etc.


    HELP

  2. #2
    I want to know is it possible to control separate two engines (singles or maybe twins not bigger than 300cc each) with fuel injection, running with a common intake (20mm restricted) with a common ECU.

    I would be grateful if you could provide me with some information such as:

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE>Is it technically possible?

    Could you provide us with such ECU (rough estimate of cost for custom ecu's)?

    Is this a good idea?[/list]
    I would need something like: a custom ECU which could control both engines independently, it would possibly have to have two crank sensors inputs etc.


    HELP

  3. #3
    I could be wrong but I doubt any commercially available ECU is set up to look at two different engine speeds. It's certainly possible however it seems much easier/simpeler to just run two ECU's. The only way I can think of to run two engines with one ECU is to connect them via the crank so they always run at the same speed and timing, but then you may as well just use a bigger engine!

    One restrictor wouldn't be a problem, unless your engines are quite far apart, then you might have some piping issues.
    UoA 07'-?
    www.fsae.co.nz

  4. #4
    Do you know if there is a way maybe through a microcontroller to make them talk to each other... Maybe by can, I want to have a way of making sure that they run at the same speed, and if not then the spark is retarded to slow one down...

    The reason for this is that we can have only one throttle prior to the restrictor.

    Do ecu's support spark retardation on can request??

  5. #5
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eryk Sokolowski:
    The reason for this is that we can have only one throttle prior to the restrictor.
    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Much easier to get the TPS signal to two ECUs, or to put two TPSs on your throttle....
    EX-FSAE

  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Is this a good idea? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The magic eight ball says:

    "All signs point to no"

  7. #7
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eryk Sokolowski:
    Do you know if there is a way maybe through a microcontroller to make them talk to each other... Maybe by can, I want to have a way of making sure that they run at the same speed, and if not then the spark is retarded to slow one down...

    The reason for this is that we can have only one throttle prior to the restrictor.

    Do ecu's support spark retardation on can request?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The best way I know to make sure 2 engines are running the same speed would be to join them at the crank, like Jimmy said. Trying to do it by making 2 ECUs talk to each other and alter the tuning appropriately sounds like a HUGE pain.

    But again, if you're doing that, what have you gained compared to just running a bigger engine?
    Dr. Adam Witthauer
    Iowa State University 2002-2013 alum

    Mad Scientist, Gonzo Racewerks Unincorporated, Intl.

  8. #8
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    Who says he's not trying torque vectoring, aka "Skid Steer"? Definitely don't want your cranks operating at the same speed then

  9. #9
    I could actually see it being possible and simpler than what everybody thinks. You could connect the engines via the crank so that the pistons in both of the engines are paired so that you now basically have a 2 cylinder engine that would operate as a single. From here you could run design a single intake that would be similar to a normal intake on a 2 cylinder. This would give you a single throttle, plenum, intake and TPS for both engines. Best of all you may be able to use one ECU set up for a single cylinder engine and splice wires since the engines are operating as a single cylinder.

    The other way that this may be possible is use the same style intake but offset the engines so that the one crank is 180* offset from the other so you simply have an engine that operates as a 2 cylinder engine. You should be able to run this configuration with a simple ECU like a PE. Also, as far as tuning, you may run into an issue that the cylinders would be running different AFR's (not uncommon) and you can simply use a cylinder compensation when running with this method to correct the issue. If I was to try joining 2 engines, I would try this method first.

    Now if one of these methods would work, I would guess that it would be heavier and a lot harder to maintain and tune. Another problem that you may run into is your method of connecting the engines. If you connect them together in series, you will have 2x the force in one crank because it would be transferring the load into the driveline from both engines which may cause that crank to fail because it was only designed for the load of one cylinder. So you would have to have you "connector" between the 2 engines also be you location of energy transfer into the driveline. also, with both set-ups, since you are tricking the ECU into thinking that it is controlling one engine, you only need one Crank Pos Sensor.

    Anyway, im making this too long and I dont want to do your design for you if it was something that you are considering. Also, in case anybody was wondering, Rule B8.1.3 states that multiple engines can be used as long as the total disp. does not exceed 610cc and all the air comes from one restrictor.

    Andrew
    Louisville Motorsports

  10. #10
    Joining engines with a common crank is not a solution.

    We already looked in to that solution...

    I am not looking for mechanical solution but i would like to solve this problem via electronics, 2 engines 1 ecu or 2 engines 2 ecu's which can communicate with each other...

    Any ideas please?

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