Cost Rules - Discussion of New 2009 Rules

[Claudia Del Vecchio]

Mr Riley,
I'm writing you becaus I have two questions.

- The first is about the difference between ANY and ALL in the supplier column of the materiale table. Does one of the two term includes if the part is Student built?

The second questione is about the unit cost for carbon fiber...iN the tables the carbon fiber the cost unit is $/kg but I know that normally the carbon fiber is costed in $/meters...Wich is the right unit cost?

Thank you very much

[A. Mitchell]

Mr. Riley-

I have a few questions that have come up while working on my BOM.

For an air-water heat exchanger what are you looking for for volume? Core volume (height * width * depth)? Actual internal volume? Including tanks? Maybe external heat transfer area would be a bit less ambiguous?

I don't see any type of filler neck included in parts or plumbling. Should this be cost as student built or should I submit and AIR? This is an example of what I am looking at:

http://store.summitracing.com/...700+115&autoview=sku

Lastly, for processes shoud we be including the "Machining Setup, Intall and remove" process twice for each part? Once for installing/machine set-up and once for removing the finished part?

Thank you.

[Bill Riley]

Mr. Riley-

I have a few questions that have come up while working on my BOM.

For an air-water heat exchanger what are you looking for for volume? Core volume (height * width * depth)? Actual internal volume? Including tanks? Maybe external heat transfer area would be a bit less ambiguous?

I don't see any type of filler neck included in parts or plumbling. Should this be cost as student built or should I submit and AIR? This is an example of what I am looking at:

http://store.summitracing.com/...700+115&autoview=sku

Lastly, for processes shoud we be including the "Machining Setup, Intall and remove" process twice for each part? Once for installing/machine set-up and once for removing the finished part?

Thank you.


Andrew Mitchell
UWashington Team 20

Andrew,

We're looking for what you call core volume, length x width x height. What we could measure at the judging tent with a tape measure.

Filler necks are cost as made.

"Machining setup, Install and Remove" includes both fixturing the part and removing after machining all as one process cost, so don't include it twice or you will be double paying for something. It also includes cleaning the parts of chips, etc which is why it might seem expensive as a labor cost.

[Bill Riley]

Mr Riley,
I'm writing you beause I have two questions.

- The first is about the difference between ANY and ALL in the supplier column of the material table. Does one of the two term includes if the part is Student built?

The second question is about the unit cost for carbon fiber...iN the tables the carbon fiber the cost unit is $/kg but I know that normally the carbon fiber is costed in $/meters...Wich is the right unit cost?

Thank you very much

Claudia,

Any and all are interchangeable. I will change all the "all" to "any" so it is consistent and less confusing.

Do you have a specific example of what you are wondering about student built parts? Generally student built will be in the material description.

Carbon fiber is normally cost per square meter but that cost varies a lot depending on the specific weave and number of fibers in each ply (plus thickness of the ply). We found that to represent carbon fiber (and other composites) relatively accurately we had to do it by mass.

Don't forget the cost per mass includes resin as well as carbon so you need to cost your part by finished part mass, not by the dry fiber or mass before layup.

[Lenz_FH]

Mr. Riley-

I have a question that come up while working on the add items. We are a European team and we are working in Euro instead of Dollar. Last year there was a defined exchange factor in the rules, but that´s missing this year.
Should we take the exchange factor from 1st january 2009?

None of our add items are in the new table update, (Sachs dampers and ECU Motec M800).

Lorenz Ehgartner
joanneúm racing graz

[VTMotorsports09]

Since we are all using the same cost tables, you will not need to convert Euros. Just use the dollar amount given for a particular material or process from the tables.

Have you sent in an AIR for the dampers and Motec? If not, you need to. If you did, from what I have heard, they are still in the process of updating the tables with all of the AIRs.

Hope this helps.

Brad Underwood
Virginia Tech

[Lenz_FH]

We also write the cost report in dollar but the finacial management in our team work in Euro.

For the AIR`s we currently use Euro because there is not defined exchange factor like it was last year. Is it ok to do that?
(Last year the dampers was in the costreport with the exchange factor from 01.01.2008, like all purchase parts in our team)

I have a second question concerning the oil cooler. In the tables you find a Air to Air cooler and a Air to Water cooler. Is it ok to use the price for a Air to Water cooler for the oil cooler too?

Best regards
Lorenz

[FryGuy]

Brake pads and heat exchangers are costed at $0.00 per mm^3. Does that mean they are free or is this a typo?

[FH_Roland]

There are Controllers for active suspension and active differentials included, but there is no controller for shifting purposes.

We have a self made controller unit built for that. How should we cost it, especially as there is no posibillity do cost it as self made as all needed parts are not included in the table.

Greets!

[Bill Riley]

I have posted a new material table that has almost all of the AIR's we've received since about middle of last week. Not all, but most.

Now to answer some questions:

Lenz_FH: Send us your AIR in Euro. We can convert it. If you want to convert it for us, please use whatever exchange rate you think as we will check it. Before the exchange rate mattered a lot more because no one looked at it before the competition but now we check them all before we add them to the tables.

The Sachs Damper and Motec M800 are now included. We were working on it, but the work is complete. We have received several hundred AIR's and there are three of us working on them.

Please use air-to-water for air-to-oil. When I added them it was in the general sense I and I didn't realize it might be confusing. I will modify it to be air-to-liquid.

FryGuy: Please increase the number of digits and you will see the cost is not zero. The unit size is small so the unit cost is very small and doesn't show up in the default format. Sorry for the confusion.

FH_Roland: We have developed a model for costing all integrated electronics like you're talking about. It is under internal review and should be posted this week. The basic idea is you cost a "chassis control module" which is the box the electronics sit in. Then you add the functionality you have in your electronics by adding line items from the materials table. You don't cost it by adding resistors, capacitors, etc. Once the methodology is approved after committee review I will have it in the table, and I'm planning to do it this work week to give the Virgina teams time to use it.