Just adding another point to the discussion;
I have never seen an Indian team at comp where the performance of the car was limited due to low engine power (except for the cases where the engine was not running at all...).
Just adding another point to the discussion;
I have never seen an Indian team at comp where the performance of the car was limited due to low engine power (except for the cases where the engine was not running at all...).
Regards,
Tobias
Formula Student Germany
FSE Rules & Organisation
http://twitter.com/TobiasMic
http://TobiasMic.Blogspot.com
Not many people know the difference between resolution and accuracy.
BINGO!I have never seen an Indian team at comp where the performance of the car was limited due to low engine power (except for the cases where the engine was not running at all...).
Claude Rouelle
OptimumG president
Vehicle Dynamics & Race Car Engineering
Training / Consulting / Simulation Software
FS & FSAE design judge USA / Canada / UK / Germany / Spain / Italy / China / Brazil / Australia
[url]www.optimumg.com[/u
Nathan,
I'm aware it's a commuter bike engine but it's still a KTM and it's still new and unproven (both in FSAE and the bike world as far as I can see).
ftorque,
Apologies, didn't realise it was as readily available as you say. Still, have you sourced parts or tuning knowledge for this engine? If the KTM 200 has been in the Indian market for years and has plenty known about it, why don't you use that? As Tobias says, you guys aren't limited by power (in fact, the only Indian team I have seen attempt enduro (at FSAE-A, with an Enfield I think) had a driver who'd never driven a car before...).
Jay
UoW FSAE '07-'09
That's what I'm talking about. Peak power may be on that list, but there should be quite some points with higher priority.Originally posted by TMichaels:
Just adding another point to the discussion;
I have never seen an Indian team at comp where the performance of the car was limited due to low engine power (except for the cases where the engine was not running at all...).
@ftorque: You're on the right track here in my opinion. Availabilty (also of spare parts) is definitely an issue.
Back when our team was founded, one important reason for the team to use the Honda CBR was that it is quite easily available here in Germany and a friend of someone from the team was working for a company which was tuning this engine for racing purpose. So there was someone who could tell the team the strengths and weaknesses and what you can easily modify without ruining the engine.
Nowadays the key issue is that after years of using the same enginge, the team itself has a lot of experience with it and gathered a lot of data over the years. It may sound boring, but stuff like that can be much more important than the theoretical performance potential of an engine.
Rennteam Uni Stuttgart
2008: Seat and Bodywork
2009: Team captain
GreenTeam Uni Stuttgart
2010: Seat and Bodywork / Lamination whore
Formula Student Austria
2012: Operative Team
I agree with Bemo's point, local knowledge is such a huge bonus point, no design judge could refute that someone willing to donate time / experience with a specific engine to the team is another pro for choosing that specific engine.
Also regarding shying away from 'low powered' singles (compared to peak power 4's), the low end torque of a single is a massive plus point on corner exit. (at least in my eyes, considering the skill level of the average FSAE event driver - amateur, low seat time etc). Anyone else agree?
Electronics Warwick Racing 11' Alumni
I am trying not to be drawn into these arguments, but I can't help myself.
Tobi, that was really nicely put. I'd be overjoyed to see a reasoned discussion from a team on this thread about the factors that are limiting their progress, and how they are addressing them.
If you are looking at professional marathon runners on the start line of the New York marathon, the factors that might affect which one gets to the finish line first could be the proportion of carbs and proteins in their diet, the ramp up and ramp down of their training regime in the preceding weeks, the distribution of shock absorbing gel in their runners, etc.
When you are looking at two babies playing on the lounge-room floor, the factors that might effect which one gets to the toy box first might be whether junior can balance on their own two feet yet, whether they have filled their nappy or had their bottle or whether there is a kitten in the room.
When I see arguments on this thread about relative merits of Hondas and KTMs and weight distribution and torque outputs and the like, I can't help picturing babies in Nikes on the start line of the New York Marathon. Their dads are arguing about the relative merits of Nikes vs ASICS, or about the best pacing strategies over 42km for the prevailing weather conditions. Meanwhile at the start line one kid is licking beetles, another is crying for his mum and the third one has crawled off chasing a puppy.
Don't get ahead of yourself. Know where you are at, and design your project accordingly. Learn to walk before you try to run.
If I was starting out and I was in India, my engine of choice would be the simplest one I could find. Locally made. Air cooled. Single. I'd even go carbureted. I may be walking at a slow pace. But I'd be way ahead of all those squawking kids in lycra playing on the starting line...
Geoff Pearson
RMIT FSAE 02-04
Monash FSAE 05
RMIT FSAE 06-07
Design it. Build it. Break it.
Big Bird,
That is what our new team is focusing on, we want to manufacture a simple, well organised, and properly engineered fsae car.Don't get ahead of yourself. Know where you are at, and design your project accordingly. Learn to walk before you try to run.
Pranav Shinde
Pune University
India
That is good to hear Pranav. Keep reminding yourselves of those principles, from beginning to end. Good luck!
Geoff Pearson
RMIT FSAE 02-04
Monash FSAE 05
RMIT FSAE 06-07
Design it. Build it. Break it.
Would love to see that car!
---
Harry Bikas
UoP Racing Team
UoP Racing website
UoP Racing on Facebook
UoP Racing on Twitter
UoP Racing on Youtube
To mech5496,
Harry,
Nothing to do with the topic but I had to mention this.
When I go to http://lms.mech.upatras.gr/Formula/index.html how can I know (or anybody who doesn't know you or doesn't know your university) what UoP means? In which country is "UoP"? I know where Patras is because I lived in Europe but do you think students from India, Russia, China USA should "automatically" know that?
Most of the teams do not think about the importance of identify themselves properly in a global market.
I am fine with "Beaver team" and "Lions team" and "Elephant team" but there should be also on your documents and your pit on circuits some basic description of you university and your country. Suggestion: some basic graphic with the name of your university, the city and the country, with the map of the world or your continent, contour of your country and red spot of your city.
My 0.02 $ marketing advice
PS: Pretty impressive list of articles published on your team. Smart to put these links on your website!
Claude Rouelle
OptimumG president
Vehicle Dynamics & Race Car Engineering
Training / Consulting / Simulation Software
FS & FSAE design judge USA / Canada / UK / Germany / Spain / Italy / China / Brazil / Australia
[url]www.optimumg.com[/u