Now admission tickets are over.
Now admission tickets are over.
Urgh not this argument again.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PatClarke:
The GP thing is showbusiness!
Seeing an electric car demonstrated at the GP would be like seeing a music writing exercise at a rock concert. All the passion, soul, involvement is there, but you can't hear any effin music! Gettit?
Take offense at that!
Pat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No an electric car is like going to a rock gig and complaining that there wasn't a light show to go with it, it's not the reason you're going in the first place but it can add to the show.
Considering how the last two years of F1 cars entering a corner have sounded like this "Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr-klack Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr" I think we can get over the whole noise=better experience thing.
UWA had the pleasure of running a few laps of Barbagello raceway after Mark Webber had done a few laps in a demo F1 car. The car had a completely hollow muffler on it so it didn't sound pathetic compared to the Red Bull. It might have well been electric cause you couldn't here a thing from it after everyone was deafened by the F1 car!
I also seem to remember a certain Pat writing a column about how important it is to protect your hearing (OK that is out of context but it is relevant)
Wow, that triggered quite the reaction.
Dear Pat, you tackled quite a few points in your argument. Let me first say, that I sincerely hope that you get well soon.
Before I start, I want to emphasize that I was not talking about the GP viewers, who I am also totally sure think that way. My problem is that many people in the FS community think that way
I know, that for the commercial fan, noise is a big part of cars especially in motorsports. I am also aware of the fact that this is hardly going to change, at least not in the next 2-3 decades.
However, I believe that the excitement in FS is about more. This is why I cannot stand these kinds of comments, and although I know that you are aware of what electric FS cars are capable of, you are feeding the ignorants, e.g. „electric car haters“.
This is the first point we disagree. I believe their are in fact people disrespectful to teams building electric cars. These includes judges. For example, at some competitions their are no judges with proper knowledge to judge electrical drivetrains. I am very curious about FSUK and FSA this year. I hardly doubt that a electric car will win design, because there are still a lot of judges who „do not know what to do with it“.
I believe in FS, excitement should be about what teams achieve.
I personally think it is way harder to get your own electric motor running with inverters and batteries, than just taking the hundretth suzuki 4cylinder engine and tuning it (this may not be totally fair).
Further it should be about performance. I envy a car that is fast. I really don’t care why (actually as an engineer I do) but my understanding does not make my fascination smaller. I hate it, when people discard achievements by so called „high budget teams“.
„...they are only so fast, because of their money...“ That is so disrespectful to teams that have achieved a certain status and with it a certain budget.
- Firstly I am still conviced that a good FS Team will do well in a competition, no matter the budget. E.g. Aristotle Racing in FS UK 2011
.- Secondly, money does not buy you success. There are two big misconceptions in FS: one is, that money makes your car fast. Money just gives you more possibilities to choose your technical solution, but you still have to choose it.
- Thirdly, I am disgusted, when I read about people talking about the „big teams“ where professors and companies build the cars. That just makes me sick, because it is untrue and just unfair to the people, that work just as hard.
Nobody ever asks why those teams have a high budget, which brings me to my next point:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PatClarke:
FSAE/FS was formed to engance the hands on experience of young engineers. The FSAE initially could see that this aspect of education was being overlooked and set in place a competition to address this.
What has happened in recent years is teams are now using the event to enhance the technology, NOT the hands on experience of young engineers!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree. I still believe that the hands on experience of young engineers is still enhanced, I would argue even more than before.
The more professional nature of FS has made teams more professional. Their work is better structured, they have better resource planning (time AND money). I think a structured project is way better engineering than backyard tinkering.
Further, let’s view the FSAE Competition with its rules as a task.
So what I understand you are not satisfied about, is that the teams are not solving the given task in the way you want them to. How can you accuse them for that?
High budget teams did not find a gold mine and started building expensive FS cars. They started like any other team and did a good job solving the task.
Nobody ever asks why a sponsor gives lots of money to a FS team. There is really only two reasons.
- He wants to place his name in the industry among young engineers
- He wants GOOD young engineers
So why do some teams have more budget than others.
Because they do a better job!!!
They do a better job solving the given task. They do a better job marketing themselves. What does that for them? They have better possibilities to solve the task, e.g. more sponsoring.
I have to say here, that of course, you have a regional difference. I am aware of the fact that in different countries, companies spend less money in recruiting and sponsoring.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But not attractive to the average revhead! Be very aware of that fact! Blustering will not make that fact go away, no matter what your personal thoughts are!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Coming back to that. Does it have to be? Imho, a thing that is attractive to a broad average, does not necessary imply that it is good.
My question is, what is the goal oft he GP action. It is to promote FSAE.
But why do you want to bring a competition to a broader public if you think it hurts the competition. Isn’t becoming more famous and relevant what brought the big sponsors to the competition?
Cheers,
Alex
AMZ
AMZ Racing ETH Zürich
------------------------------
2012 - now cranky old guy who knows everything better
2011 - 2012 Team Leader
2010 - 2011 Suspension
Alex,
the demo at the GP is to attract people to SAE-A. It has nothing to do with FSAE.
Enough, I'm done
Pat
The trick is ... There is no trick!
Wow.
Apologies if I tread on anyone's toes. It might be a good time to clarify a few things.
Firstly, the on track demo involves the two overall victors from FSAE-A 2011 - Monash IC team, and RMIT Electric team. We hope to offer the on-track demo as an incentive for the victorious teams at future FSAE-A events as well.
Regarding intent, some of the unis competing in FSAE-A are primarily looking at educational outcomes and "finishing off" the students' educations with a complex design project. This is the original intent of FSAE as I understand. Most of these teams are happy to continue with IC FSAE cars, as the technologies are accessible and the components can be cheap.
The other half of FSAE-A entrant universities are looking towards alternative powertrains, for reasons of research, funding and being seen to be at the cutting edge of the environmental sustainability debate. Some universities do not want to be seen to be promoting "motorsport",* and wish to be aligned with something greener. Many of these unis are looking towards, or already competing in, the electric car event. (*And like it or not, despite our arguments about educational outcomes, some in the wider community simply see FSAE as a motorsport event).
So FSAE-A will be comprised of an electric event combined with an IC event in future.
Having displayed RMIT IC and electric cars at recent Oz F1 GP's, we have had equal interest from the IC fans, and those spectators who are interested in the electric cars too. The GP attracts a wide range of spectators and they cannot be characterized by any one stereotype.
The GP demo is part of an educational push at this year's GP. We will have the afore-mentioned two cars on track, and later they will be on display near the Minardi two seater and Speed Challenge cars. We will also have a stand with some more cars at the Educational Expo on the golf course side of the track. The intents are to showcase educational opportunities related to the automotive industry, promote the SAE-A, and to raise the profile of FSAE-A as well.
Now, back to the point. Who wants free tickets? Still available, we have booked a surplus so can take registrations until they run out. Contact Michela at the SAE-A, details above.
Cheers!
Geoff Pearson
RMIT FSAE 02-04
Monash FSAE 05
RMIT FSAE 06-07
Design it. Build it. Break it.