Waterloo FSAE - suspended!

[thewoundedsoldier]

As an FSAE team you DO represent the university

This comment implies that the school is in SOME WAY supportive of the team. I come from the type of university that has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicles until they want to put the hybrid team's picture on the front of the department website. The only university employee who adds anything appreciable to the teams is the central shop technician (machinist).

I would not say that the formula-involved students at my school should feel obligated to carry the shield of SJSU. The school does not carry us, why should we carry them?

I know that the school owns the shop and all that jazz, but really there are a lot of teams that GIVE to their university more than they GET from it.

[cvargas]

Originally posted by thewoundedsoldier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As an FSAE team you DO represent the university

This comment implies that the school is in SOME WAY supportive of the team. I come from the type of university that has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicles until they want to put the hybrid team's picture on the front of the department website. The only university employee who adds anything appreciable to the teams is the central shop technician (machinist).

I would not say that the formula-involved students at my school should feel obligated to carry the shield of SJSU. The school does not carry us, why should we carry them?

I know that the school owns the shop and all that jazz, but really there are a lot of teams that GIVE to their university more than they GET from it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Getting anything from the university does not mean that you still don't represent the school. If their name is some where on your team, you represent the school, there is no other way to cut it.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by thewoundedsoldier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As an FSAE team you DO represent the university

This comment implies that the school is in SOME WAY supportive of the team. I come from the type of university that has absolutely nothing to do with the vehicles until they want to put the hybrid team's picture on the front of the department website.

I would not say that the formula-involved students at my school should feel obligated to carry the shield of SJSU. The school does not carry us, why should we carry them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a really poor attitude.

The school is the reason that you can compete. The school takes on liability and as you state, has facilities (including machine shops) that they make available.

There are thousands of student athletes around the country and world (those not on full scholarship) that proudly represent their school in sporting events, and give their time to do so. Maybe you should take a step back and follow their example.

It's not about the school 'carrying' you or vice versa. It's about both student and university accomplishing something that neither could do alone.

Your attitude is exactly the type that can prevent your team from getting to the next level in terms of school support.

[thewoundedsoldier]

I don't mean to de-rail the thread, but...

I can tell you guys don't have the hardships I am talking about. In 2009-2010, I built our hybrid team from ground zero with absolutely zero school involvement/help/support/guidance. Upon returning from competition with a trophy, the school thought it should slap the team pictures all over the place as a marketing/recruiting tool for future students. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil.

I'll give you another example. Before FSAE was started at our school, the machine shop was practically unavailable to ALL students. Now, three years later, our SAE chapter runs the shop and many unrelated projects are able to use it because we have improved/maintenanced the machines and poured our own money into bringing everything on line. The university would not have this asset available if it were not for a few pivotal students who preceded me.

As for all the "attitude" comments, I can tell you that without the sort of "eff you" attitude I'm spewing, none of our SAE teams would have been able to grind through the crap and do what they've done. Being quiet and getting back in line just wouldn't cut it--not at this university.

"It's about both student and university accomplishing something that neither could do alone."

Going back to the original thread, I would say that this young woman could do a hell of a lot more if she wasn't muzzled by her university.

[Charlie]

When I started at Auburn we had no University support. Our official advisor in my firstyear, I only saw once and he basically stopped by to tell us we all sucked and we'd never finish the car. (Luckily we had an unofficial advisor who was great). We had all our own tools and raised all our own funds. We didn't have an real access to the machine shop and had to make due with a mill and lathe that weren't really fit for use.
Many team members spend hundreds (if not thousands) to build the car. I got my boss at work to sponsor us one hotel room in Detroit which we all slept in.

But I never for a second didn't think I represented the University.

I don't see how the University publicizing your efforts makes your 'blood boil.' That's ridiculous. You should be proud of that and use it to build your relationship with the University, not be immature and selfish about it (that's my trophy not theirs )

My 'attitude' comment had nothing to do with being quiet and everything to do with being constructive and not destructive with your university relationship. I know first hand that a 'eff you' attitude is not a good long term goal, having been in your shoes and taken a different path, we found a lot of success and began a good longstanding relationship with the university. it wasn't easy and it took time, but it was worth it.

[cvargas]

Originally posted by Charlie:
When I started at Auburn we had no University support. Our official advisor in my firstyear, I only saw once and he basically stopped by to tell us we all sucked and we'd never finish the car. (Luckily we had an unofficial advisor who was great). We had all our own tools and raised all our own funds. We didn't have an real access to the machine shop and had to make due with a mill and lathe that weren't really fit for use.
Many team members spend hundreds (if not thousands) to build the car. I got my boss at work to sponsor us one hotel room in Detroit which we all slept in.

But I never for a second didn't think I represented the University.

I don't see how the University publicizing your efforts makes your 'blood boil.' That's ridiculous. You should be proud of that and use it to build your relationship with the University, not be immature and selfish about it (that's my trophy not theirs )

My 'attitude' comment had nothing to do with being quiet and everything to do with being constructive and not destructive with your university relationship. I know first hand that a 'eff you' attitude is not a good long term goal, having been in your shoes and taken a different path, we found a lot of success and began a good longstanding relationship with the university. it wasn't easy and it took time, but it was worth it.

Bingo, there is a saying that I try to keep near and dear to heart and a lot of times fail at using it. You get more bees with honey then you do with vinegar. Work with your university to build a great SAE program and if bad situations arise, rise above them, keep a good attitude, because the moment you start giving lip to the people who could give you money and support forget about it.

[flavorPacket]

Charlie, I think you've laid out a really meaningful message about developing a long-term relationship between a FSAE program and a school. But sometimes, in the extreme short term, team leaders need to be more focused on the next 24 or 48 hours than the next 3 or 4 years. Few academic processes move quickly enough to allow a team to go through the system properly in this time frame. Thus, it is common for FSAE members to take shortcuts, or ask for forgiveness rather than permission.

The truth is, eventually push will come to shove, it will be 3am the week before comp, and they'll simply need to get stuff done. If a team really cares about its current car more than its future program, which is a totally reasonable position to adopt, then it will likely need to break some rules, annoy an administrator, or commit some other misdeed. At the end of the day, these teams are made up of novices, and expecting them to act like seasoned adults is setting everyone up for failure. Should professional conduct be the goal? Of course. But I've yet to find a seasoned adult who pulls 65 hour days to get a car ready (aside from a few very crusty old mechanics).

The standards which schools have for FSAEers are higher than those to which they hold themselves. This is largely because schools have no idea how much work it is for a bunch of kids to build a car. woundedsoldier and others are frustrated by this, and having been in their shoes, I don't blame them.

For me, the key was to exercise good judgment between acting short-term -- ramming through the obstacles put in place by the school -- and acting long-term -- setting up the right discussions and relationships to remove the obstacles moving forward. A successful team leader must be capable of using both tactics when it's prudent to do so.

[Mehul Botadra]

Straying away from topic! :P

Well Mr. Sedra has a Wikipedia page too!

h t t p ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adel_Sedra#Controversy

Check out the last date of edit! :P



Well looking at the bright side, the university got a lot of media recognition! So did the team! :P

[Pennyman]

Originally posted by thewoundedsoldier:
I don't mean to de-rail the thread, but...

I can tell you guys don't have the hardships I am talking about. In 2009-2010, I built our hybrid team from ground zero with absolutely zero school involvement/help/support/guidance. Upon returning from competition with a trophy, the school thought it should slap the team pictures all over the place as a marketing/recruiting tool for future students. Just thinking about it makes my blood boil.

I'll give you another example. Before FSAE was started at our school, the machine shop was practically unavailable to ALL students. Now, three years later, our SAE chapter runs the shop and many unrelated projects are able to use it because we have improved/maintenanced the machines and poured our own money into bringing everything on line. The university would not have this asset available if it were not for a few pivotal students who preceded me.

As for all the "attitude" comments, I can tell you that without the sort of "eff you" attitude I'm spewing, none of our SAE teams would have been able to grind through the crap and do what they've done. Being quiet and getting back in line just wouldn't cut it--not at this university.

"It's about both student and university accomplishing something that neither could do alone."

Going back to the original thread, I would say that this young woman could do a hell of a lot more if she wasn't muzzled by her university.

Your concern is valid, but don't forget some of the unwritten benefits that our SAE chapter has received due to our diligence and persistent care of the shop. After hours passes, 24hr access, first name basis with professors (and possible internships because of it).

As one of our members would say: It's what you make of it.

Sorry to derail again. I'm really bummed for Waterloo. As a plus though, they could bring their current car to MIS in 2012 with more testing than any other team :P

[moose]

For me, the key was to exercise good judgment between acting short-term -- ramming through the obstacles put in place by the school -- and acting long-term -- setting up the right discussions and relationships to remove the obstacles moving forward. A successful team leader must be capable of using both tactics when it's prudent to do so.

+1

Every team is going to do stupid things, that's ok - it's part of learning. But there are lots of things that they can do to build a long-term relationship in a parallel path. This not only helps when it comes time to ask forgiveness but hopefully makes everything easier for teams in the future. It's very easy to get short sighted, but some decisions/actions need to at least consider the future as well.

Telling a department/school to take a hike and being stubborn about the whole thing is generally the wrong path to take. The time investment is huge and emotions come into play, but being professional in communications never hurts. Find a way to trade favors that are easy and don't cost money (i.e., bring car to event in exchange for publicity to recruit members)