Fantasy Car

[Markus]

Originally posted by Pippo69:
Four of the Final Five teams at FSG 2012 had big wings AND 13" Goodyears.
It is not one single part of the car that makes it a fast car...

If you want to pick with it, tires are the only single part that will make the car go fast.

A car without wings can be fast.
A car without tires really can't...

Enough said, FSG last year isn't really a place to make judgements about how much the wings help, only about what the trend will be in future. And we all know it's gonna be more wings.

[MCoach]

Power only matters up to a certain point, after about 50hp it's pretty diminishing returns and after about 75hp you're not getting anything else other than maybe a better accel time.

Gear ratio you only gain on if the driver is able to control the car, being traction limited rather than power limited in several gears rather than just first.

Aero, I've seen a curious thing in lap sims as it always seems to be a gain. Even large wings with a 1:1 L : D there is a gain. Sure, to compensate for the drag you can up the gear ratio and start using more of 4th + 5th, but the lap times still fall. The only thing is that fuel consumption goes up with drag and the driver's start spending more time near WOT.

Lateral acceleration is ALWAYS welcomed.
Longitudinal acceleration is beneficial but nowhere near as much as lat.

I liked working with the D2704's they will be surely missed.

But again, these are only math and a little obersvation.

[Max Trenkle]

Well the driver is something you can't simulate
You just have to hope they stay cool and smooth.

[Z]

Originally posted by Kevin Hayward:
Z,

70kph through a hairpin is a heck of a lot more than 3g.

Kev,

Yes, a hairpin at 3G is only about half that speed (~10 m/s, 36 kph). At 72 kph the Gs are x4!

My main point was that either:
1. You can corner at 3G on the fast corners, but have to "drop out of warp" around the low speed corners (ie. little aero downforce).
Or,
2. You take the low speed corners at 3G, but then have the axles snap off at high speeds due to the TON of downforce.

So some downforce reduction at higher speeds will probably be needed. Drag is not a problem with good aero design (stay tuned...).
~o0o~

BTW, the UC Berkeley car is headed in the right direction. Still a bit too complicated, but I like the 8" tyres, and especially like the very quick build time. Well done! Enjoy your 5 months of testing and getting faster.

Z

[Big Bird]

I haven't seen the UC Berkeley car, but like the idea of a "quick build" design.

I've always had this desire to build an "Anti-Technology Special":
- Steel spaceframe
- Swing axles F&R
- Direct acting shocks
- Pitman arm steering
- Spool
- 10" aluminium wheels
- air-cooled single cyl engine
- carbureted
- balsa bodywork (with a nice baltic pine stain)
- No aero
- No carbon
- Something made of dried kelp

Objective - build the simplest, lowest parts count, lowest process count car possible within the rules.

Swing axles? Why not? We were so close to it with our early geometry, why not go a little further and remove two chassis node points per corner. Simplifies upright articulation too.

Balsa bodywork? Make the thing look like a flying fruit box. Maybe allow on compound curved panel for the nose cone and a bit of a "bonnet" - polished aluminium?

Carbureted? Just coz I'm lazy, and I have seen Tokyo Denki whipping nearly all with a carbed 450 in 2002

Kelp? Damn cool material. Light, tough, formable, and at the end of the day you can shred it and serve it with Japanese noodles.

Pitman arm steering - light, almost friction free, no outboard bearings to bind a rack up.

Motor - Honda XR400 with electric start?? Single gear?? JAP speedway motor with electric start? Maybe kick or pull start from the cockpit (hey, it is a fantasy, OK?).

I reckon it would be a good challenge, cheap, easy to build, and I'd love to see how close you could get to the front with it...

[rjwoods77]

Geoff,

I also thought that it would look rather classy to do a clear coated copper plated (or shiny copper painted) frame with walnut burl veneer covered body panels.

In Mini Baja everyone has the cord pullstart routed with a pulley to the cockpit just over your right shoulder so you can start it still belted up. I wanted to give it a go but the team wanted electric start.

Jawa 500 on E85 would work great.

[Frank]

I have seen Tokyo Denki whipping nearly all with a carbed 450 in 2002

If you lay out a tight track then a "mario kart" should win.

what about a spring starter? http://springstarter.com/uploa...starter_on_ferry.wmv

i can picture a Tokyo Denki driver furiously winding a handle to start their mario kart

[rjwoods77]

Frank,

That is pretty cool. I always loved this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlUTFi3cN00

...I am convinced that some of sound effects from Star Wars was based off of this. Also on an interesting side note I came across the fact that all the high powered v12 fighter engines were all fork and knife connecting rods to keep the overall length of the engine down...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/for...conrods-2-resize.jpg

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by rjwoods77:
Geoff,

I also thought that it would look rather classy to do a clear coated copper plated (or shiny copper painted) frame with walnut burl veneer covered body panels.

In Mini Baja everyone has the cord pullstart routed with a pulley to the cockpit just over your right shoulder so you can start it still belted up. I wanted to give it a go but the team wanted electric start.

Jawa 500 on E85 would work great.

kind of like the new peugeot onyx?

[rjwoods77]

jlangholzj,

I have never been a fan of copper in flat-ish surfaces since it always appears to be too much shine. On tubular/conical surfaces it works much better since its just enough to look sharp but not overwhelming such as this example...

http://urbanvelo.org/wordpress...9/03/day-4-31_61.jpg

This car is a decent overall example...

http://images.forum-auto.com/m...oodTorpedo%29-03.jpg

...but on a FSAE car go very shiny on the rims, frame tubes, mirror, accent and then a deep dark rick burl on the bodywork/monocoque. I remember watching a Zagato bodied Aston Martin polished to perfection at a vintage race at Watkins Glen so years ago...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/d...atpanzer/6074818326/

...The sunshine reflected off of the the car as if it drove through a shimmering halo coming out of the Esses and I froze to watch it every time. I could imagine on a nice sunny day a copper plated roll hoop and rims beaming light into the by standers would create a lot of smiles.

You could also do a patinated copper on black theme as well to get a real striking and original look such as this would represent...

http://www.bikermetric.com/201...copper-bmw-r513.html

...you'll notice that I brought this all back to the flat twin idea of this topic. Anybody want to try fitting in my CAD to see what it looks like in comparison to other setups???