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Thread: What are your favorite FSAE Cars?

  1. #61
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    Mbirt, Apologies for slight derail of thread, although UWA-12 was POTENTIALLY a very good car.
    ~~~o0o~~~

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude Rouelle View Post
    Maybe I should have explained this better. Best knowledgeable AND best abilities to explain and present your product. A good engineer without communication skills won't go very far. And yes that could also mean to learn how to introduce themselves and defend their innovation.... and make sure IN ADVANCE that their innovation is complying with the rules just, simply, by asking the rule committee ahead of time. A lot of trouble can then be avoided. I have seen a few teams out there who are so sure of themselves and their innovation that they expect to just be dazzling without trying to convince the judges and other students of the validity of their design. "We are convinced our car is legal, we are exceptional but we can't explain why and in fact we do not need to" is not the best way to gain approval in the paddock. If on top of that your car is not even finished, not only you do not prove anything but you also send a message that can be interpreted as "I don't care".
    The world is full of genius who are not able to defend their ideas, do not know how to "sell" the relevance of their innovation and then play the victims when they do not find approval.
    Claude,

    Are you suggesting that FSAE is NOT about producing more knowledgeable Engineers, but rather it is about producing a lot of slick-talking Salesmen and Sycophants? (All of above highlighted skills belong in the Presentation event.)

    Specifically, it seems you want to reward dimwits who can repeat parrot-fashion the BS they are taught in VD seminars (eg. see "Damper Rates" thread), but any students showing they have MORE knowledge than their "teachers" will get punished with low marks. Frankly, that is disgraceful!

    I took one look at a picture of the UWA-12 undertray and thought "Here are students who have a better understanding of what is important to an FSAE car's performance than I ever thought possible". I certainly would NOT have suggested such a design to the general FSAE population, because it is a country mile ahead of the current standards (waaay beyond what I thought FSAEers could understand).

    But the UWA students had to spend "several hours" trying to explain it to you.
    Do you now understand how a "longitudinally interconnected suspension" works?
    Do you teach it in your seminars?
    Or are you the one who deserves the mark of 3/200?

    And most importantly, if a team is again in your Design tent and they show they are "more knowledgeable" than you (perhaps because they have another type of advanced suspension that you do not understand), then will you again punish them with such an insultingly low score?

    Is that your role as an "educator"???

    Z
    Last edited by Z; 09-25-2013 at 09:52 PM.

  2. #62
    Claude, Z, leave the knife fights for another thread. This one is designated as a simple 'get together thread'.
    I like cars that bring innovation to the table, some that go to the extremes (even if it's without success)
    I would have to say in this order:

    The 1990 Cornell car is one of my favorite. The sucker car.
    ETS 2012 - So refined, such attention to detail on every single part.
    Monash 2013/Terps 2013/GFR 2013 - I have a special place for enormous winged behemoths.
    USF Baja 2007 - THE winged baja car, can't miss that.
    And Akron's car from this year was also a wonderfully fast sight.
    2001 - Instituto Technologico de Chihuahua - very swoopy, pretty production looking for 2001.


    There aren't too many 'old school' cars that I bring up because I don't really fall for the classics, or the muscle cars (Viking 30), but am always impressed by the new material brought to the game every year. With FSAE it's almost every car topping their last.

  3. #63
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    Z, assuming Claude is solely responsible for UWA's low score (I doubt it) you can view it thus: he is basing his judgement on a large amount of theoretical knowledge backed up by practical implementation in a racing environment. You are basing your views almost solely on the theory, in effect just acting the keyboard warrior. IMO (and, possibly, in that of design judges on the day), the design event should showcase a working car that best brings to life the theory behind it (otherwise the design event should just be conducted via a computer). As UWA's car was very incomplete, I don't see why it should have gotten great marks, despite the amazing work behind it.

    Anyway, I really liked our 2007 car, Jim. He had some bad luck at comp but was a very fast and solid car, being used successfully for some pretty brutal testing (especially engine - turbo) for a few years after comp. I liked Monash's 2009 car because it was so simple (really quite ordinary looking (apart from the wings) with spool, direct acting shocks, manual shifting, etc) whilst being very very fast. I really liked Auckland's single when they first used it (2008 I think) because it was such a small and sexy car. I also liked Deakin's sidewinder because it was different.
    Jay

    UoW FSAE '07-'09

  4. #64
    This has an Australian flavour to it

    Auckland 2005 - Bat shit crazy car that brent and the boys built! only car I can remember that failed noise because they were around the 125dB mark!! put the exhaust outlets in the diffuser, it definitely wont act like a trumpet!!
    Deakin 2006 - Great concept, was super fast through slaloms, great group of guys too! First use of carbon wheels in Aus too, which they have now developed into production wheel
    RMIT 2003 - Have only seen videos of this in action and heard a lot about it from Big Bird but really started the revolution, simple, single and FAST!
    Stuttgart 2006 - Best first year car in a long time, Wordley and I were adamant this team would dominate comps in the future based on that years car
    UQ - 2005 - FAST!! frank, tania and the team built a rocket ship that was so simple but so well put together. Blew everyone away at FSG06, statics are for suckers.
    Monash FSAE (2005-2009)
    www.monashmotorsport.com

  5. #65
    Four cars I consider the best of the 'old-school' Australian cars: (the originals being the original Rothmans Williams - liveried Woolongong cars) Monash 2010, Swinburne 2010, UWA 2010/11 and the UoM 2012 car. (slight bias) Loud, completely unsubtle, heaps of fun and I think, one of the most rewarding concepts to make fast due to its inherent intractability. That type of car seems to like either being massively understeery or displaying a lovely combination of front locking, rear locking, mid-corner understeer and snap oversteer, all in the same corner. Those four are the ones I think sit best somewhere in the middle, at the happy junction of throttle steering, shuttle-launch acceleration and really, really fast tyre wear.

    That said, UoM '11 I believe still holds the all-time FSAE tyre wear record - one set of D2704's from green to canvas in two days.

    Auckland 2012 doesn't fit in this category, but it's still awesome.
    MUR Suspension & Steering '11
    MUR Suspension advisory/annoyance '12
    BJR data engineer '13
    Maker of things

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by JulianH View Post
    It is quite difficult to judge the best of anything...
    ... or go with the 2010 Delft car, to find out why Erik Schmidt can't stop worshipping it
    Unfortunately the engine broke down and is (at the moment) beyond repair. It was designed for 2000 km and it did that, and then stopped ... I think Schmidt's affection is with stroopwafels and petrol engines and that car was the last one with one from Delft.

    Favorite with me is 'What would I really like to drive':
    I would like to drive one of the Monash cars just to know what it's all about with those wings. Or the 2009 Stuttgart car, as it dominated everything. Or the 2009 Graz car with rear wheel steering enabled.

    Unfortunately i'm beyond the 95p spec tall so won't drive any fsae car soon...
    Tristan
    Delft '09 Team member, '10 - Chief Electronics
    'now' (Hardware) Security Engineer

  7. #67
    One of our guys drove the 2011 Monash machine at Haunted Hills at the driver swap and had quite a reaction. So do I swear, he was dead silent for about four hours afterward, then he wouldn't stop talking about wings for a month.
    It was apparently contagious, as about half a dozen people picked up the same obsession and we ended up having to fit some wings (Thanks Monash) to our car and drive it around a bit to cure them all.

    Conclusion: Wings = Infinite Improbability Drive. It makes some strange noises, everyone turns in to balls of wool or flowerpots and then throws up and you go quite a long way in a short time. Then it all kind of peters out, a rather relaxing voice says 'We have normality', and you can't help but think, whatever that means...
    MUR Suspension & Steering '11
    MUR Suspension advisory/annoyance '12
    BJR data engineer '13
    Maker of things

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by BeunMan View Post
    Unfortunately i'm beyond the 95p spec tall so won't drive any fsae car soon...
    I'm a largish individual myself.....about 6'5" (~196 cm for you folk that live in the right world) and 230lbs (~104kg). When I get in our '13 car my knees about poke through the nose cone and there's not a whole lot of room left for the imagination. Somehow I do fit though!! One of our other drivers can effectively lock his knees out while still touching the pedals.

    One thing that nobody has mentioned is that they like their own cars dangit! I mean...after all if you didn't think that it was the best out there, why even bother bringing it to comp?! Although after a few issues with ours this last year at comp I was about ready to push it off a cliff.....Its entertaining how Matt's book stays true through the years.
    South Dakota State University Alum
    Electrical/Daq/Engine/Drivetrain/Tire guy '09-'14

    Go big, Go blue, Go JACKS!

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wettenhall View Post
    One of our guys drove the 2011 Monash machine at Haunted Hills at the driver swap and had quite a reaction. So do I swear, he was dead silent for about four hours afterward, then he wouldn't stop talking about wings for a month.

    It was apparently contagious, as about half a dozen people picked up the same obsession and we ended up having to fit some wings (Thanks Monash) to our car and drive it around a bit to cure them all.<br>


    Conclusion: Wings = Infinite Improbability Drive. It makes some strange noises, everyone turns in to balls of wool or flowerpots and then throws up and you go quite a long way in a short time. Then it all kind of peters out, a rather relaxing voice says 'We have normality', and you can't help but think, whatever that means...
    So we should nickname the Monash cars Heart of Gold? Anyway unfortunately, too much cars seems to be powered by a Bistromathics drive...

    Let's cut back to the chase

    Good looking : HAWKS Racing (Any really)
    Non-traditional concept : Berkeley 2013
    Clean, attention to details (and seems to be very fun & responsive to drive) : ÉTS
    EV : AMZ 2013
    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::
    2007-2012 - Suspension, chassis, and stuff (mostly stuff)
    Université de Sherbrooke

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlangholzj View Post
    One thing that nobody has mentioned is that they like their own cars dangit! I mean...after all if you didn't think that it was the best out there, why even bother bringing it to comp?!
    I think it's because we're all too humble. But I'm going to give it a try...

    Kettering 2013. 400 lb single-cylinder car on 13's with all-aluminum bodywork, yet possibly the most awarded car in the Western Hemisphere in 2013. We took a risk developing our own engine control code in-house, spent a decent amount of time simulating and on the chassis dyno, and it paid off with fuel efficiency wins at each competition we entered despite only having 83-91% of the pace of the endurance winner under the new fuel scoring. Winning other powertrain and cost-related awards made it an even bigger success. A jump from 256th in the world to 38th in one season shows that simply finishing a car on time for testing, solid static event scores, and a well-developed powertrain can take you a long way. Nothing on the car is exotic or expensive, we just worked harder and smarter this year.

    And I passed a not-so-bad winged 4-cylinder car twice during endurance at Lincoln, motivating the announcer to bring up the wings vs. no wings topic. A single vs. 4 cylinders mention would have put it over the top. This makes it my favorite FSAE car.
    -----------------------------------
    Matt Birt
    Engine Calibration and Performance Engineer, Enovation Controls
    Former Powertrain Lead, Kettering University CSC/FSAE team
    1st place Fuel Efficiency 2013 FSAE, FSAE West, Formula North
    1st place overall 2014 Clean Snowmobile Challenge

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