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Thread: High School FSAE Team Progress

  1. #31
    Good points RiNaZ,

    Like many of us over 50, I was a computer novice. I talked with several people doing CAD drafting and most said the same thing, "buy it and teach yourself". However, I have learned that usually when you teach yourself something it is slower and you learn lots of bad habits.

    I compared prices for various schools and ended up taking the beginning AutoCAD course at the local University. It cost less than the computer I bought to practice with at home. I was hired by an engineering firm before the semester was over so it worked out very well. I am currently a Design Drafter V and I use AutoCAD 8+ hours a day on a huge variety of projects. (no houses)

    Over the years I have taken classes for skiing, flying, driving, racing, diving, dancing, motorcycle street riding (after racing dirt bikes for 30+ years), autocross course design, and many other interests, and in all areas I have friends who were self taught. Every one of them would have improved if they had taken a class with a real instructor, and most would have avoided serious problems that came from their learning "experience".

    However, this thread is about a high school FSAE car design/build team. I strongly disagree with those who say that high school students are not capable of designing and building a safe, competitive car. I know that some students are capable of great things and if given a direction and (very importantly) an interesting goal, they can astound people.

    After all, what makes a college team SO MUCH smarter than a high school team? Pride? Or perhaps the drinking parties? We have several EIT's (engineer in training) here that have a degree, but no common sense design ability. They come up with the most complicated and often lousy designs that would never be built. So everyone learns and that starts with reading. Reading what others have done before and understanding why it worked or why it did not. Then, after a thorough understanding of the theory and practice, build on that with new ideas and directions. Not everything will be an improvement though. Do you remember the 6 wheel (Benneton?) Formula 1 car? They spent a ton of money to see if that would be an improvement over the competition. It wasn't they learned. And now we have Audi with the Diesel Sports Racer. So many said "It will never be competitive" and "It won't work". Now look at the results! Not that I am eager to go out and buy a diesel sportscar, I do appreciate the new thinking and possibilities.

    After examining pictures of all the entries in the FSAE events for the past few years that I could find, I see that some teams do not have a basic understanding of chassis design, which anyone can get by reading the many books available. So what? They are learning something, even if it is only what not to do.

    As I look at the pictures of the Carter Students car I see many excellent design solutions and original thinking. The build quality appears in the pictures to be first rate too.

    It is true that a High School team could be just building to the design of the instructor. Just as some Univerity teams now probably get more than a little direction. However, I have seen or read about high school teams building boats, houses, kit cars, and even at least one built a Kitfox airplane. True, they did not design them but they still learned a lot in the process. However, as for Carter Student Engineers, it does sound like the students are resonsible for the design of their car.

    So I say GOOD ON YOU! and I do hope the FSAE sees the benfits to have you enter officially.

  2. #32
    People should'nt be making "assumptions" and biased remarks just because we are High School students. Our team captain made this thread for suggestions on a technical basis, not to be judged on our motives and education.

    Thank you.

    Gianluca
    Business Director, CSE
    Carter Student Engineers

  3. #33
    Hey guys, i think its awesome that high school team is making a car. Im actually from not too far from carter and my sister goes there (live in king city).

    All of this talk about high schoolers not being able to engineer anything is bollocks. Im in first year and i have (albeit with a bit of instruction) designed and build quite a few things on this years car, with no previous design experience. granted i have also learned a great deal of skills as far as fabricating and design goes.

    The times where you will learn the most are when you design something, build it, and then find out the hard way that it doest work the way you wanted it to. (happens to the best of us).

    I hope you guys will be able to compete in the future, because the harder the judges grill you on your design choices, the more you will learn. I look forward to seeing you guys at comp this year and (if its done) would love to see this years finished car from you guys.
    Stefan Nasello
    Queens University Racing - Project Manager 2009
    Rennstall Esslingen - Suspension Team 2010

    www.qfsae.com
    www.rennstall-esslingen.de

  4. #34
    your welcome to come visit the shop, im sure our teacher wont mind at all.
    Carter Student Engineers

  5. #35
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gianluca:
    your welcome to come visit the shop, im sure our teacher wont mind at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    i'd like to extend that invitation to anyone on these forums who is in the GTA or surrounding area, who would like to see our progress or has doubts about our capabilities, come over and see for yourselves.
    Don't buy it, Build it

  6. #36
    ill stop by for sure, im finished on the 29th and will be back for a week. Id love to see the progress.
    Stefan Nasello
    Queens University Racing - Project Manager 2009
    Rennstall Esslingen - Suspension Team 2010

    www.qfsae.com
    www.rennstall-esslingen.de

  7. #37
    hey stefan, i was at baja east competition a week ago and i was volunteering for the carnage crew. I saw and hang out with some of the Queens baja guys. The car that they had was very fast and i think they finished within the top 3. And then, there was this car from sherbrooke univ., that car was fast too. I timed them and i think their average lap time is well within 10 mins range.

    But then there was this rumour going around saying that the queens guy didnt fabricate any of the parts of the car. They cant even if they want to becoz of university policies and tools being a liability and such.

    I also heard that even the sherbrooke car wasnt built by the guys in the team.

    Do you guys have that same problem?
    RiNaZ

  8. #38
    rinaz, as far as i know this is not true. We have a fully functioning machine shop with 3 new Haus CNC mills, a few CNC lathes and a few manual machines. Both formula and baja do most of our own fabrication. I know that baja this year machined theyre own gearbox. They spend a lot of time in the machine shop so afaik they do quite a bit of their own fabrication.

    As for formula, this is also true. We do alot of our own fabrication in the machine shop. The machinists here will help if help is required but the work is done mainly by the students.

    Here at Queens in mechanical engineering there is a second year practical course that takes place in the machine shop and teaches use of lathes, mills (both CNC and manual), welding, use of plasma cutter (very cool), and some other machines that weve got in the shop, so there arent any liability issues that i know of.
    Stefan Nasello
    Queens University Racing - Project Manager 2009
    Rennstall Esslingen - Suspension Team 2010

    www.qfsae.com
    www.rennstall-esslingen.de

  9. #39
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RiNaZ:

    But then there was this rumour going around saying that the queens guy didnt fabricate any of the parts of the car. They cant even if they want to becoz of university policies and tools being a liability and such.

    I also heard that even the sherbrooke car wasnt built by the guys in the team.

    Do you guys have that same problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    RiNaz (and anyone who heard this), I don't know where those ridiculous rumours came from but they are just that. Just to backup what my team mate is saying, Baja and us definately do all of our own fabrication. As far as Baja goes, our school has an excellent team and the machine and metal work they do is above and beyond what most formula teams pull off, perhaps this very high quality of work is the reason this rumour started? who knows.
    As far as our team goes, i personally fabricated all of the hubs, rotors, uprights, spindles, a arms, upper ball joints, and knuckles. so yeah, no outsourcing here. we do it all.

    oh and i think a high school FSAE team is a great idea, and i'm definately looking forward to seeing them at comp, if only to go through tech and static events. Another great thing about the team is if any of them decide to come to queen's (great school by the way) they will a) bring a good base of knowledge and b) reduce the number of times all the upper years are asked how fast does it go, or why are there no paddle shifters, or any of those types of questions which we all love. but yeah, Carter students are definately welcome in our paddock at comp, we'll be the ones with the wicked clear coated carbon fibre monocoque.

    John Valerio
    Queen's FSAE
    John Valerio
    Queen's FSAE
    http://engsoc.queensu.ca/formulacar/

  10. #40
    one more thing,
    sean or gianluca, was your car the one at the 05 UofT shootout? if so, how come it stayed on the trailer? i was looking forward to seeing it run.

    John Valerio
    Queen's FSAE
    John Valerio
    Queen's FSAE
    http://engsoc.queensu.ca/formulacar/

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