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Thread: High School FSAE Team Progress

  1. #21
    My gripe isnt with the fact that FSAE
    ers are building a car. In fact, had my high school had a similar program, I would have participated. What I am saying is that, no offense to the students from this school, I have serious doubts about the amount of engineering work that the students actually do.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">a good teacher could do a good portion of the engineering that FSAE teams do on their cars </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is exactly my point- the object of the competion is not for the teacher to do the work. The car is supposed to be designed and built by the students, not by their professors.

    As far as being an elitist, it is my opinion that Engineering is one of the three hardest fields that someone can work in during their career, and I am proud to be an engineering student.

    And you are right, fabrication is a major part of the competition, since you cant compete with a car that doesnt run. But how much of the competition is scored on how well you fabricate?? Exactly 5 points out of the 1000. I would point to the fact that, as many FSAE'ers already know, the questions the judges ask can be extrememly detailed and hard to answer. I dont think that a students response to a question should ever be, "well my professor designed this part, so let me point you in their direction."
    "I couldn't find the sportscar of my dreams, so I built it myself" -Ferdinand Porsche

  2. #22
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">group of smart high school kids with time to go through engineering books and a good teacher could do a good portion of the engineering that FSAE teams do on their cars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    KU, might want to take a gander at that one again.

  3. #23
    I am one of those A-hole teachers that would love to have a group of students compete in a project like this, and for simplicity I would lean towards a go-kart or a high milage vehicle (both of which have comps for HS). But, and hear me out on this one, do you really think that the first years you have on your team designing any component of the car are better than these HS students. Three months before you got those bed wetters on your team they were worried about who they were going to prom with (or without).

    And what about the non engineer STUDENTS (emphasizing that we are all students) that work on the cars (everyones). The business, marketing, teaching, plastics, machining, and other majors that are involved. Are you telling me that on most teams where these individuals have taken the time to learn (the software's, the design analysis, and everything else that goes into the design) don't know what they are doing and that you would rather have them sit it out.

    I think that anyone that has doubts about a HS team beating a college team should take a look at the last 60 places for FSAE and tell me that a group of determined kids with the right facilities can't beat them. I say Bullshit. Obviously if you doubt this you had a shitty Technology Education facility compared to the ones available to some schools, and you don't realize the possibilities.

    I for one would rather have a group of Hike SKoolers than the group of children at college that tell you that they got better things to work on than FSAE.


    Bill Kunst

  4. #24
    Bill thanks for the positive reply, and the support. we originally looked into go-kart and super mileage competitions, but their just not the same as FSAE.
    Don't buy it, Build it

  5. #25
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oh yeah, forgot- CHECK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YOURSELF </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ice Cube fan, Bill?

    I dunno. HS FSAE team is cool. I'm glad you guys are working on it, and with the right determined kids you could definately score fairly well. But at the same time, I'm wary of it, for the same reasons that were pointed out earlier. Four years of college education and being down working on the car, you learn a LOT, but still only a fraction of what's out there. So I'm wary of the caliber of engineering and analysis at the HS level. But hey, let em compete. Have the students grilled by the design judges just like everyone else. If they score well, more power and more props to em.
    Colorado FSAE | '05 - '07
    Goodyear Tire & Rubber | '07 - '11
    NASCAR Engineer | '11 - ??

  6. #26
    I am the faculty advisor for Carter Student Engineers.
    We applied to bring our car to the competition to display it only and have it pass tech inspection. We asked to have the car would participate in static events only. We wish to prove that we are 100% rules compliant. We are aware of the insurance and safety concerns of this event and we wish to be a fully positive contribution. Carter Student Engineers is not about putting Cornell a lap down in the Enduro. Perhaps when the students get to University they can give it a try.
    High school students are fully capable of engineering quality products. In my province there are no formal engineering courses taught in High School. How can we expect students to be capable of engineering when they have not been taught? Given the challenges our domestic auto industry faces from Asian competition and the fact that China is in the process of training its future engineers on pirated software to work at rock bottom labor rates the only niche left for us will be top end design work. We are going to have to make a quantum leap in our education to hold on to this area.
    Teaching is a great career and I would encourage many of you to consider it. We need you.
    My goal is to provide knowledge of good design practices for the students. In a recent example a student showed me a linkage design. It was nicely thought out but was in single shear. It took all of 30 seconds to point out an example of single and double shear on last year's car. Now he understands.
    I attempt to provide relevant information for each area of design. The student's design components without wasting an enormous amount time just trying to find sources of information about what they need. I then do quality control.
    My students have not been allowed to achieve their goal of being allowed to present their car to the design judges at the SAE event in Michigan this year. As their culminating activity they will be presenting the car for technical inspection to our title sponsor. This is a man who as a youth worked for Fangio and knew Colin Chapman. He started his own company in 2001 and now employs over 3800 people. No one will bluff this man. The students must understand their work.
    We will apply to be allowed to statically display our car at the Michigan event and pass Tech inspection for the 2007 event.
    Our team will attend the Michigan event to observe and learn. Please help the students with their technical questions and let the organizers know of your support for our team if you agree with our objectives.

  7. #27
    If my high school had let us build a formula car, I might have actually cared about high school for longer than the 2 seconds it took for the principal to hand me a diploma.

    Just from the pictures on the the website I can say that you are FAR better equiped than we are at a university level. SAE is the bastard child of our university, and recieves little more than a dark corner to work in. I would also guess that your budget (however low you may think it is) is much greater than ours.

    That being said, I have no doubt that a high school team could make a formula car compete.
    An engineering degree is not required to build a race car, but god does it help.
    A formula car is far more complicated and intricate than a go kart or high mileage car. And, a lot more dangerous. Anyone can weld some pieces of steel together, but that is a very minor part of designing a race car. I question how well highschool students understand torsional rigidity, FEA (not the fancy computer software, I mean finite element method), suspension geometry, spring rates, damping coeficients, material properties, or safety factors.

    PS You guys better un-pop your collars if you want to be on our formula team.
    University of Wisconsin - Platteville

  8. #28

    I concur with several of the above voices from around the world. If the high school I attended had something like this I would be a different person today. I would not have dropped out, built a sailboat, sailed down the coast of Mexico and over to Hawaii and ended up a charter boat captain on Maui for 10 years.

    And now, many-many years later I am designing my own FSAE car. No, I am not in school, I race AUTOCROSS and I think the FSAE cars are perfect! Small, light, fast, and fun. My Miata is nice, but not a serious race car and since it is my daily ride I don't want to turn it into a serious racer. I no longer live in the heat and sun of Hawaii and yes, I get checked for skin cancer every 3 months.

    But, since I picked up a wrecked Suzuki 600 sportbike and a donor car (Subaru Justy) for the hubs, brakes, diff, axles, and everything else I can use I am designing my own Locost FSAE car. True, it will be much heavier than your cars as I do not have a machine shop to mill out custom uprights and all the other fancy (expensive) parts. But, I am not competing against any of you. I will be the only one in the FSAE class at our events. And if that is not fast enough for the FTD (fast time of day) then I will drop in the Suzuki GSXR 750 motor I just got. Heh-heh-heh and I will move into the SCCA A-Modified class then.

    Also like you I am planning to build more than one car as I know I will learn a lot from the first one.

    What did you use to get the power from the counter shaft to the diff on your car? I am trying now to come up with a simple (read affordable) system that is short so I do not have to put the engine any farther forward. Like your car, my motor sits longitudinaly so there is a straight line from the countershaft to the diff. I was thinking of adapting a CV joint but there must be a better way.

    Keep up the High School leadership! I hope more HS follow your lead.

    I did attend University finally by the way, although not for a degree, but to learn CAD.


  9. #29
    last year we designed a 2 piece drive shaft splined to the output shaft on the motor and the other end splined to the diff, it bolts together and sandwiches the rear brake. this year we did the same thing just much shorter
    Don't buy it, Build it

  10. #30
    you must've paid a lot just to learn CAD thru the university. Ever try getting the guys in that university to teach you instead? Im sure you dont have to pay as much.

    And, usually, you dont need a class for CAD. But if you've never had any CAD experience, a first few intro is good, but afterwards, you can pretty much learn on your own.

    Even a massive program like CATIA isnt that hard to learn for doing simple CAD. I think it's the question of whether you have the time to learn it or not becoz any CAD takes a couple of hours every day to get use tu.

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