Performance Electronics Problems

[Chris Blanchet]

Hi everyone,

My team has had problems getting our F4i started the last few weeks. We are running The Edge ECU by Performance Electronics. We have checked compression, spark, injectors firing, battery level, amongst other items. Our most current problem is that after readjusting the timing of the motor, we are getting no signal from the ECU to the injectors and coils, yet, when firing each injector or coil individually, we get spark/fuel. Does this sound like an ECU problem? By that I mean that the ECU is toast. Does this sound like a general wiring problem? If so, for reference, we had our motor almost starting with the current wiring. Appreciate any input anyone can give.

[MileyCyrus]

Hi Chris,

One thing that we had on one of our older cars that is still running, is the quality of wiring had deteriorated, leaving only a couple of strands to the ground line from the ignition modules, allowing continuity when tested with a multimeter and various amounts of running, followed by cutting out when it could no longer handle the current.

I'm sure others will have more suggestions/experience with this form of problem, though it's at least something to check.

Cheers,

[Cardriverx]

Sounds like you are having sync problems with the cam or crank sensor.

You need air, fuel, spark, and compression. You are missing one. If the diagnosis function fires the plugs/injectors but they don't when cranking then I would first check the cam and crank sensors then double check your settings. Use the oscilloscope function.

[bubba_27]

Chris,

I currently work on the Michigan Tech FSAE team and we just encountered a similar problem on our f4i running the PE edge. For some time we have been unable to get our f4i started on our dyno test stand. As you did, we checked compression, spark, injection, firing order, wiring harness, battery, the list goes on.... Yesterday we adjusted timing and are having the same result. We can fire each coil and injector individually and get spark/fuel, yet when we crank the engine, there is no signal from the ECU. We used the "get" function and the ecu is picking up both cam and crank sensors however there is a constant "1" by the trigger error and sync error. Is this happening to you as well? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the trigger and sync errors should read "0".

-Miley, good idea, we are currently looking over all our pins/wire in hopes of finding a wire/pin that has deteriorated.

Hopefully we can find an answer soon.

Justin

[jlangholzj]

Remember what was said guys, air, fuel, spark. The last two are typically controlled by the ECU. If i know brian well enough, that ECU isn't going to fire unless all of its motor parameters are happy. If its not sync'd then it wont fire the injectors or the spark.

Talk to one of your sparkies, if they're any good they'lll either a) have an o-scope or b) know where to get one quick. My suggestion is to check the outputs of the injectors and the coils while your cranking / trying to start. See if you get any activity, ideally you'll see the control signals working away, if not...something else isn't happy.

Also, when you've "re-timed" the engine, was it via ECU or the timing wheel on the crank? The latter goes back to the ECU not being happy happy happy...

Also I haven't worked with the latest version of the PE software so I'm trying to remember if they have mag/filter levels. Could be that the ECU is picking up the signal but its too noisy to know what to do with it. Make sure the ECU has a solid ground line to the battery and the battery to the frame. You can pick up some nasty noise off of those coils if you're not careful.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but the EDGE still has internal coil drivers right? I've experienced some weird stuff when that wasn't the case (and we thought it was).

My advice, disconnect everything but power, ground, ref and sync. Make sure you're both a)getting good signals (via o-scope) and b) making the ECU happy. Once you get both of those done, it should pop right off. Make sure for looking at signal lines that you have it hooked into the ECU, some of these sensors are open collector and require a driving source to actually function (Also found that one out the hard way)

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Hi Guys,

It sounds like you both have crank errors (trigger or sync). Trigger and sync errors should both be '0' when you capture a trigger diagnostic file. The most common problem for the f4i engine is not having the polarity of the crank/cam sensor correct.

Crank the engine over and take a trigger diagnostic file (*.pediag) and send it to us along with your tune file and we should be able to see what the problem is.

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Chris and Bubba..... you guys should talk. It looks like you are both from the Mi Tech FSAE team