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Thread: Personal Computer For FEA

  1. #41
    Originally posted by RollingCamel:
    The PSU is waaaaaaaaay an overkill.

    You can save nearly $100 by changing the mobo and PSU without impacting the experience at all.
    This I agree with 100%.

    Originally posted by RollingCamel:
    ...but for this point I'd get a decent gaming GPU along side the professional card, which is something I used to do with my softmodded Qaudro FX 4600 and ATI 4770. Changing the video source would activate the card, thankfully windows 7 played nice running both cards.
    I was actually thinking about this also, never did ask if he was into computer gaming at all. However I would keep the power supply if I were to do this. The quadro 600 is only a 40 watt card. However most current gaming cards push 200-300 watts and require additional power connections that cheaper power supplies don't have.
    ______________________
    Iowa State Univeristy FSAE Alumni
    http://www.sae.stuorg.iastate.edu/?page_id=144


  2. #42
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    I'm not real big into gaming right now, seeing as I have basically no free time. But I used to play games online ( WoW ) before I came into college. I'm graduating in a year so we shall see where things go after that...

    I'll have another look at other options for the motherboard that allow overclocking.

    Also, guess I would just throw this in there. I am running an ATI Mobility Radeo HD 4650 with 512 DDR3 in my laptop right now and it doesn't have many problems with the models I do ( opening a mostly completed chassis model takes a few minutes, but manipulating it isn't a big deal ). I'm sure the quadro 600 would be more than enough to blow this card away.


    @ RollingCamel So you ran 2 video cards not in sli mode? How did switching between them for each process work?
    --Dash Robinson
    --Mississippi State University

  3. #43
    Bringing my "two years outdated" experience to the table, as others have mentioned, Solidworks graphics demands have not grown in proportion to hardware capabilities. In fact, with the size of models we use, if you don't get absolutely crazy, I still get perfectly acceptable performance on our whole car model with a 5 year old gaming card I paid under $200 for new with a soft mod. Hell, the low-end gaming Radeon 3200 in my laptop handles our 2010 whole car model relatively decently. If I were building a $1000 system, with 6 years of acceptable SAE performance in mind, I would also budget about $150-$200 for a low-end workstation card.

    The current trend since about 2003 with Solidworks has been to become more CPU demanding than GPU demanding. The models themselves have not really gotten much more complex to render. Model rebuild times are the times you want to reduce, as every time you change something it has to rebuild. And those are dependent on CPU speed, still mostly on a single processor, and memory speed/system bandwidth. The trend is moving towards more multi-threading, but processor requirements are increasing much faster than graphics requirements.

    For motherboards that seems like a pretty simple deal, but I know the lower-end ones, at least for the AM2 and AM3 ones I was shopping for 2-3 years ago, lacked support for the latest Hypertransport and memory standards, or didn't support the power requirements of the latest processors. No reason to hamstring your system by trying to save $50 on a motherboard. Also the motherboard is something I wouldn't want to go cheap on, as a cheapo one could crap out on you in 2 years. And that was another plus for AMD over Intel, in addition to the processors being cheaper the motherboards were $50-$100 less for a comparable one. Speaking of processors, comparing apples to apples, the Core i5 was built to compete with the Phenom II after they started waxing Core2 Quads. To my knowledge the Core i5 will be a step up from a Phenom II, beyond that AMD just really doesn't compete. But if you're shopping for Core i5s the AMD could be a cheaper alternative, will have probably about the same memory and system bandwidth, but be down a bit on grunt processing power.

    As for building an SAE computer for a dual role with gaming, I say hell no! We have already had problems with people deciding Call of Duty was more important than FSAE, but at least they weren't tying up SAE resources while they were also not getting their job done. Robot Unicorn Attack and other totally badass flash-games are great to get the "glaze off your eyes" after 26 consecutive hours of cost-report madness, but my general rule is if it has a plot or has any type of graphics hardware requirements, it's not good to have in the SAE lab.
    Dr. Adam Witthauer
    Iowa State University 2002-2013 alum

    Mad Scientist, Gonzo Racewerks Unincorporated, Intl.

  4. #44
    I was actually thinking about this also, never did ask if he was into computer gaming at all. However I would keep the power supply if I were to do this. The quadro 600 is only a 40 watt card. However most current gaming cards push 200-300 watts and require additional power connections that cheaper power supplies don't have.
    Even so. Here is a good read about supply needs.
    wWw dot anandtech dot com / show /2624

    Also, guess I would just throw this in there. I am running an ATI Mobility Radeo HD 4650 with 512 DDR3 in my laptop right now and it doesn't have many problems with the models I do ( opening a mostly completed chassis model takes a few minutes, but manipulating it isn't a big deal ). I'm sure the quadro 600 would be more than enough to blow this card away.
    The GT430 on which the Quadro 600 is based on is an HTPC card and the slowest thing you can get on market. The 4650 is still a decent card...mobile wise.

    With a quality 400W PSU you can run a the Corei5 and a high midrange or even high-end single GPU card with ease. Want SLI or crossfire, you will need more power.

    There is the power supply online calculator it is quite helpful.

    extreme dot outervision dot com /PSUEngine

    Excuse me for being so picky, but $100 is nearly 50% of my income so it is a big deal for me to ensure that I get the best out of each dollar.

    RollingCamel So you ran 2 video cards not in sli mode? How did switching between them for each process work?
    Just changing the monitor's video source....win7 makes a sound and voila! However, setting it up with a softmodded card needs to set the pci-e slot on which the modded card as the 1st or main slot because Rivatuner wouldn't work unless you do that. I had the Ati 4770 on the 16x slot and the 6800GS-Q4600 on the 8x slot. My PSU is simi decent one an HEC 450W and system stability was good, though I'm not utilizing both in the same time.
    My system is an unlocked AMD Phenom II X3 to X4.

    So the 6800GS was from the era of high emitting and consuming cards unlike the current generation GPUs, the CPU is less efficient than the i5 and with 4 HDDs. The PSU worked just fine.
    Conveyor Systems Design Engineer - EgyRoll
    AUMotorsports Team Leader 09-10
    Alexandria University, Egypt.

  5. #45
    You can just get a 400W PSU Antec HCG and a $110 mobo. And save the money for the monitor, you seem to need one or two.

    PS. My cousin bought a 3d mouse and it was sweet.
    Conveyor Systems Design Engineer - EgyRoll
    AUMotorsports Team Leader 09-10
    Alexandria University, Egypt.

  6. #46
    Originally posted by RollingCamel:
    Even so. Here is a good read about supply needs.
    wWw dot anandtech dot com / show /2624
    And you missed the point. Something like a GTX580 requires a 600W power supply min along with 1 6 and 1 8 pin power connectors just for the card. Or the GTX590 requires a 700W power supply and 2 8 pin power connectors. The 580 pull 244W and the 590 365W. The point being that if he ever wanted to install a current or future generation gaming card that 500W power supply would not cut it. Just using those two cards as a worst case scenario. The other thing to think about is that most modern gaming cards are 10.5in-11in long, would they fit in that case? My 280 GTX just about don't fit in my Antec 1200 case.
    ______________________
    Iowa State Univeristy FSAE Alumni
    http://www.sae.stuorg.iastate.edu/?page_id=144


  7. #47
    Originally posted by t21jj:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RollingCamel:
    Even so. Here is a good read about supply needs.
    wWw dot anandtech dot com / show /2624
    And you missed the point. Something like a GTX580 requires a 600W power supply min along with 1 6 and 1 8 pin power connectors just for the card. Or the GTX590 requires a 700W power supply and 2 8 pin power connectors. The 580 pull 244W and the 590 365W. The point being that if he ever wanted to install a current or future generation gaming card that 500W power supply would not cut it. Just using those two cards as a worst case scenario. The other thing to think about is that most modern gaming cards are 10.5in-11in long, would they fit in that case? My 280 GTX just about don't fit in my Antec 1200 case. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You are right but it depends on Dash. If he is not a hardcore gamer and will not opt for high end cards then he is certainly in the safe side, by a large margin. GPUs are getting more and more like CPUs in term of targeted TDP so even high-midrange cards like the 6950 and GTX 560 will never ever come close to cause any problem. And as for the future, the replacing generations must be consuming less not more, this policy will not change and a 500W PSU would more than enough.

    Check the total system power consumption in real world scenarios:
    wWw dot anandtech dot com /show/4344/ nvidias-geforce-gtx-560-top-to-bottom-overclock/15


    As for the connectors thing I need to do some research, but it is a good point, depending on his needs and goal.
    Conveyor Systems Design Engineer - EgyRoll
    AUMotorsports Team Leader 09-10
    Alexandria University, Egypt.

  8. #48
    Originally posted by Adambomb:
    Bringing my "two years outdated" experience to the table, as others have mentioned, Solidworks graphics demands have not grown in proportion to hardware capabilities. In fact, with the size of models we use, if you don't get absolutely crazy, I still get perfectly acceptable performance on our whole car model with a 5 year old gaming card I paid under $200 for new with a soft mod. Hell, the low-end gaming Radeon 3200 in my laptop handles our 2010 whole car model relatively decently. If I were building a $1000 system, with 6 years of acceptable SAE performance in mind, I would also budget about $150-$200 for a low-end workstation card.

    The current trend since about 2003 with Solidworks has been to become more CPU demanding than GPU demanding. The models themselves have not really gotten much more complex to render. Model rebuild times are the times you want to reduce, as every time you change something it has to rebuild. And those are dependent on CPU speed, still mostly on a single processor, and memory speed/system bandwidth. The trend is moving towards more multi-threading, but processor requirements are increasing much faster than graphics requirements.

    For motherboards that seems like a pretty simple deal, but I know the lower-end ones, at least for the AM2 and AM3 ones I was shopping for 2-3 years ago, lacked support for the latest Hypertransport and memory standards, or didn't support the power requirements of the latest processors. No reason to hamstring your system by trying to save $50 on a motherboard. Also the motherboard is something I wouldn't want to go cheap on, as a cheapo one could crap out on you in 2 years. And that was another plus for AMD over Intel, in addition to the processors being cheaper the motherboards were $50-$100 less for a comparable one. Speaking of processors, comparing apples to apples, the Core i5 was built to compete with the Phenom II after they started waxing Core2 Quads. To my knowledge the Core i5 will be a step up from a Phenom II, beyond that AMD just really doesn't compete. But if you're shopping for Core i5s the AMD could be a cheaper alternative, will have probably about the same memory and system bandwidth, but be down a bit on grunt processing power.

    As for building an SAE computer for a dual role with gaming, I say hell no! We have already had problems with people deciding Call of Duty was more important than FSAE, but at least they weren't tying up SAE resources while they were also not getting their job done. Robot Unicorn Attack and other totally badass flash-games are great to get the "glaze off your eyes" after 26 consecutive hours of cost-report madness, but my general rule is if it has a plot or has any type of graphics hardware requirements, it's not good to have in the SAE lab.
    +1
    Quoted for truth

    @RollingCamel I'm just going to agree to disagree and move on. Everybody has their own needs and goals now and in the future. I'm not going to get into a "magazine race" with you.

    @Dash Good luck with the computer build. What you have listed should work great and would allow plenty of room to upgrade if your requirements change.
    ______________________
    Iowa State Univeristy FSAE Alumni
    http://www.sae.stuorg.iastate.edu/?page_id=144


  9. #49
    @RollingCamel I'm just going to agree to disagree and move on. Everybody has their own needs and goals now and in the future. I'm not going to get into a "magazine race" with you.
    I enjoyed your discussion and good luck for Dash.

    P.S. I wouldn't call it magazine racing just backing up a point with figures and facts is an objective way to discuss things.
    Conveyor Systems Design Engineer - EgyRoll
    AUMotorsports Team Leader 09-10
    Alexandria University, Egypt.

  10. #50
    P.S. It is if we end up going round and round for god knows how long citing our own "facts and figures". Know body here has the right answer for what Dash needs but Dash.

    I'm really done this time.
    ______________________
    Iowa State Univeristy FSAE Alumni
    http://www.sae.stuorg.iastate.edu/?page_id=144


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