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Thread: Suggestions for Tire and DAQ papers?

  1. #1
    I looked through the sticky, and i've been searching through SAE on tire modelling papers and how to set-up your car to get accurate data. But honestly asking people that may have read something beneficial is a lot more time efficient. So..... SAE Papers that have solid information in them would be great!

    Thanks in advance!

    mono

  2. #2
    Tire modeling is a deep dive down the rabbit hole. Why not use the tire models already available through the TTC? Maybe a later date you could look into doing your own.

  3. #3
    Originally posted by exFSAE:
    Tire modeling is a deep dive down the rabbit hole. Why not use the tire models already available through the TTC? Maybe a later date you could look into doing your own.
    I'd agree but might as well start learning right?

    What exactly are you trying to find? lateral loading vs down-pound for cornering? Straight line accel/breaking. I mean you're kind of leaving this pretty open.

    Also if you're not a member of the TTC and are serious about learning more on this, I'd suggest becoming one. Edward's a member here but also a very frequent member on the TTC forum and he's bar-none when it comes to tires and chassis.
    South Dakota State University Alum
    Electrical/Daq/Engine/Drivetrain/Tire guy '09-'14

    Go big, Go blue, Go JACKS!

  4. #4
    Originally posted by jlangholzj:
    I'd agree but might as well start learning right?
    Not necessarily. It's a question of what's a valuable use of your time. Not everything is.

    Honestly I see diving into tire model fitting at the FSAE level as high investment and minimal return - even negative return if you don't have expert level knowledge on what's right and what isn't and then start making decisions based on questionable results. If it were me I'd use off-the-shelf deliverables from TTC and roll with it. Maybe do some QA on the supplied fit curves.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    And in case you were unaware, SAE papers are not free for the asking.

    Join the TTC (its only money), get tire representations ready to use, get suggestions on how to roll your own, get methods to create your own fits to traditional models, get examples of how to use tire models in vehicle simulations, get results. This is not a science class, its engineering.

    Anteposto.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Not an SAE paper, but this is a pretty good starters' book for data acquisition.

    http://www.amazon.com/Analysis...sition/dp/076801655X
    "Man, I need to practice more!" - Kenny Wallace
    "Try not to have a good time... this is supposed to be educational." - Charles M Schulz
    -OptimumG 2005-2006
    -Turner Motorsports 2008-2009
    -Black Swan Racing 2010 & 2011 Team and Driver's Champions
    -HPD Race Engineer 2011-2014
    -Currently Freelance Data/Race Engineer

  7. #7
    Originally posted by js10coastr:
    Not an SAE paper, but this is a pretty good starters' book for data acquisition.

    http://www.amazon.com/Analysis...sition/dp/076801655X
    The book Data Power is also pretty good for getting started. It has been out of print forever and used copies are very overpriced. There's a pdf floating around somewhere in the bowels of the internet though.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by BillCobb:
    And in case you were unaware, SAE papers are not free for the asking.

    Join the TTC (its only money), get tire representations ready to use, get suggestions on how to roll your own, get methods to create your own fits to traditional models, get examples of how to use tire models in vehicle simulations, get results. This is not a science class, its engineering.

    Anteposto.
    At most US universities, SAE papers are right there in the library. I know they are at TxA&M.
    Charles Kaneb
    Magna International
    FSAE Lincoln Design Judge - Frame/Body/Link judging area. Not a professional vehicle dynamicist.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by Charles Kaneb:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillCobb:
    And in case you were unaware, SAE papers are not free for the asking.

    Join the TTC (its only money), get tire representations ready to use, get suggestions on how to roll your own, get methods to create your own fits to traditional models, get examples of how to use tire models in vehicle simulations, get results. This is not a science class, its engineering.

    Anteposto.
    At most US universities, SAE papers are right there in the library. I know they are at TxA&M. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    either that or we ask our advisor and they can get the papers for us. Any uni should have easy access to them
    South Dakota State University Alum
    Electrical/Daq/Engine/Drivetrain/Tire guy '09-'14

    Go big, Go blue, Go JACKS!

  10. #10
    Apologies, have been busy with classes as of late.

    @Bill, agreed. I am a part of the TTC however the volume of traffic leaves much to be desired. At least compared to this forum which get's quite a bit and a reasonable amount of knowledgeable people, not that the TTC doesn't. Just as well, my university is allowed to attain SAE papers via Illiad. Or so they tell me. I may cross post this over to the TTC as well.

    On to the topic at hand. I should've elaborated more to make my reasoning on this clear. I was very vague....

    My reasoning behind this is that I want to set up some sensor's on a track car so as to measure the forces at the tires. Once I have that, my plan was to just roll my own tires so to speak to where I can understand Pacjeka (what im most familiar with) or do some sort of curve fit that is at my level of understanding tires. The problem is, I don't know where to start with this other than possibly setting up some strain gauges on the a-arms/possibly uprights. Hence the tire paper's and DAQ.

    From this move on to some more complex simulation etc... Honestly this is my hobby, I LIKE doing and reading stuff like this. So have no intention of being a professional race engineer just a damn good weekend racer that understands the vehicle dynamics a level above the competition.

    P.S. I have been looking at some DAQ books and I saw one that was around $700....USED!!!! Being a poor college student, I will have to wait on that one. And I appreciate the feedback!

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