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Thread: Monash in hot water

  1. #31
    Originally posted by cvargas:
    I have to ask this question, if the girl in the picture didn't feel that this was sexiest, degradation to woman-kind, exploitation, and all that other bs, than why is everyone else? I mean clearly if she had a problem with it she wouldn't have taken the picture.
    Everybody's different. Some people might feel they have no choice but to to take on such a profession to earn a healthy living, other times thinsg like this can simply be a case of peer pressure or the pressures of society. Not to say that there aren't people, men and women, that are more than happy to engage in this sort of thing, and I'm not judging either way at this point. But if everybody felt equally about everything then forums wouldn't exist, we'd all wear the same clothes, etc., etc.

    Just because a criminal thinks it's ok to do something doesn't mean that it is. Likewise, just because somebody thinks that something should be illegal, doesn't mean it should.

    First port of call ought to be to see if it directly infringes on anyone's else's human rights. In this case I don't really think that's an issue. Perhaps indirectly on all women's rights to be seen as more than just sex objects, but that's arguable, as it's technically it's not a photo of all women but just one of them, who has the right to make her own choices.

    To be grandiose and idealistic I'd ask if it serves the greater cause, a.k.a. the good of all humankind. Good luck arguing either way with that one, althoguh I suspect most would lean towards the negative on that one.

    In in the end it comes down to the fact that as Student teams we have a lot of people to please, sponsors, the university, the event organisers, potential employers, all of our team members, as well as those of teams we may want to ask for help from in future (which could be any of them), the list goes on. So we really ought to avoid stepping on any toes just to gain the attention/praise of any one demographic.
    Dunk
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Brunel Racing
    2010-11 - Drivetrain Development Engineer
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    2014-present - Engineer at Jaguar Land Rover

  2. #32
    Originally posted by RollingCamel:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cvargas:
    I have to ask this question, if the girl in the picture didn't feel that this was sexiest, degradation to woman-kind, exploitation, and all that other bs, than why is everyone else? I mean clearly if she had a problem with it she wouldn't have taken the picture.

    I do agree however that Monash should have known better with previous team's history with this kind of thing. Although half naked women in racing is hardly a new thing.
    Yeah, but I thought FSAE was engineering 1st and racing 2nd. How many teams really believe that they are a racing team here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You're missing the point. Its to show that this is not uncommon in the world.
    Carlos Vargas
    Florida Tech FSAE

  3. #33
    [quote]Originally posted by Dunk Mckay:
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by cvargas:
    I have to ask this question, if the girl in the picture didn't feel that this was sexiest, degradation to woman-kind, exploitation, and all that other bs, than why is everyone else? I mean clearly if she had a problem with it she wouldn't have taken the picture.

    Everybody's different. Some people might feel they have no choice but to to take on such a profession to earn a healthy living, other times thinsg like this can simply be a case of peer pressure or the pressures of society. Not to say that there aren't people, men and women, that are more than happy to engage in this sort of thing, and I'm not judging either way at this point. But if everybody felt equally about everything then forums wouldn't exist, we'd all wear the same clothes, etc., etc.

    Just because a criminal thinks it's ok to do something doesn't mean that it is. Likewise, just because somebody thinks that something should be illegal, doesn't mean it should.

    First port of call ought to be to see if it directly infringes on anyone's else's human rights. In this case I don't really think that's an issue. Perhaps indirectly on all women's rights to be seen as more than just sex objects, but that's arguable, as it's technically it's not a photo of all women but just one of them, who has the right to make her own choices.

    To be grandiose and idealistic I'd ask if it serves the greater cause, a.k.a. the good of all humankind. Good luck arguing either way with that one, althoguh I suspect most would lean towards the negative on that one.

    In in the end it comes down to the fact that as Student teams we have a lot of people to please, sponsors, the university, the event organisers, potential employers, all of our team members, as well as those of teams we may want to ask for help from in future (which could be any of them), the list goes on. So we really ought to avoid stepping on any toes just to gain the attention/praise of any one demographic.
    I agree that FSAE teams have to kiss as much butt as they can to avoid pissing people off but this whole issue stems from complete bs.
    Carlos Vargas
    Florida Tech FSAE

  4. #34
    Originally posted by cvargas:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RollingCamel:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cvargas:
    I have to ask this question, if the girl in the picture didn't feel that this was sexiest, degradation to woman-kind, exploitation, and all that other bs, than why is everyone else? I mean clearly if she had a problem with it she wouldn't have taken the picture.

    I do agree however that Monash should have known better with previous team's history with this kind of thing. Although half naked women in racing is hardly a new thing.
    Yeah, but I thought FSAE was engineering 1st and racing 2nd. How many teams really believe that they are a racing team here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You're missing the point. Its to show that this is not uncommon in the world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    *Unrelated to the quote* Just to be clear, I see the whole fuss went out of proportion a bit. But this doesn't mean that discussing some aspects of the matter in a more general viewpoint would have to stopped or dismissed for any reason one might think.

    *Back to Quote*
    I understand your point. My point is which world? The academic community world or the racing world or Victoria's Secret world? Gigantic tacky silicon boobs of SEMA won't be seen fit for Victoria's Secrets or Frankfort's auto show. Each world has its norms and differences even in marketing. Which world are we in?
    Conveyor Systems Design Engineer - EgyRoll
    AUMotorsports Team Leader 09-10
    Alexandria University, Egypt.

  5. #35
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    The news article doesn't state that Dean Sedra has prohibited them from this year's competition. It's fairly tabloidistic (new word) in nature.

    As long as the school makes a loud stink about the issue, yet only gives the team a slap on the wrist (sensitivity training), it looks like the school, team, and FSAE all win due to the huge amount of free PR.
    -----------------------------------
    Matt Birt
    Engine Calibration and Performance Engineer, Enovation Controls
    Former Powertrain Lead, Kettering University CSC/FSAE team
    1st place Fuel Efficiency 2013 FSAE, FSAE West, Formula North
    1st place overall 2014 Clean Snowmobile Challenge

  6. #36
    Originally posted by Mbirt:
    The news article doesn't state that Dean Sedra has prohibited them from this year's competition. It's fairly tabloidistic (new word) in nature.

    As long as the school makes a loud stink about the issue, yet only gives the team a slap on the wrist (sensitivity training), it looks like the school, team, and FSAE all win due to the huge amount of free PR.
    How exactly is a "huge amount of free PR" a win? PR is a means to an end, not an end itself. Is this image or the controversy (manufactured or not) caused by it going to attract additional resources to the team/school/fsae? doubtful.

  7. #37
    If I were a highly placed staff member in Monash Engineering responsible for funding allocation, I would suspect that I would be under pressure from organisations such as WEN (Women in Engineering @ Auckland uni) to make such moves, lest they kick up an even bigger stink all for feminism, equality blah blah PC bullshit. What they do internally is quite possibly (hopefully) different from the media front seen.

    I hate feminism - not because of what it stands for, but because of the idiot women who parade it and argue about subjects such as Toy Story 3 is "carelessly sexist" because it has no positive female role models.

    I haven't seen any comments on here from any of the Monash guys though...probably just trying to keep it quiet.
    "He who dies with the most toys wins"

  8. #38
    It really bothers me a precedent has been set that forbids FSAE cars to be photographed with female models.

    If you think this is sexist than you must also think it's sexist that the top Presentation teams use attractive females as speakers. Where's the outrage for that?

    Most of the people on here are claiming it degrades women or it's sexist. If you believe that, I would urge you to really do some research into what actual feminism is. Feminism is the advocating of equal rights for women and an end to discrimination based on gender.

    There's nothing in appropriate about this image. It's a beautiful women and a beautiful car.

    If you have a problem with this you need to examine your own beliefs and ask yourself why you think it's inappropriate. I'd wager it's a manifestation of your own gender stereotypes and/or insecurities.


    Claude, as a liberal Belgian, I would expect you more than most to understand this. What reasoning do you have to denounce this picture?
    www.OspreyRacing.org
    University of North Florida

  9. #39
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    Ok easy way to solve this, next time you want to take a photo of an attractive car with an attractive model you need to have both a good looking girl, and a good looking guy there. Nice and even, no one can complain about it being sexist in that case.... I think that Rex Chan should be the standard male model... Or kirby.
    Matthew Chapman

    ADFA Racing
    UNSW@ADFA
    2006-2011

  10. #40
    To OspreysGoSWOOP

    I do not "denounce" this picture. I just "denounce" the lack of judgment of the people you publish it because they did not take into account the reaction that this could (and did) create.

    When I cook for friends I try to choose ingredients of recipes that they will like. If I speak in public (or tell jokes) my words will be different if I speak to very young kids, university students, faculty advisers, big or small company board of directors..... It is just adaptation to the market.

    In a forum you have a large audience so you just need to be more careful, that is all.

    Some of you call that hypocritical or opportunistic; I just call it good judgement


    To Paul Achard,

    A university course where I am a teacher, or a seminar especially for students, or a seminar in a company, a seminar in Europe or in North America... these are all different seminars..... and the words I choose are different too.

    You drive and setup a car differently on dry or wet asphalt. Speaking in public or publishing photos is not different: you make compromises and you adapt to the market.

    Claude
    Claude Rouelle
    OptimumG president
    Vehicle Dynamics & Race Car Engineering
    Training / Consulting / Simulation Software
    FS & FSAE design judge USA / Canada / UK / Germany / Spain / Italy / China / Brazil / Australia
    [url]www.optimumg.com[/u

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