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Thread: First year cars

  1. #11
    Aim to win Rookie of the Year ... plain and simple. If it means sitting a year out, then by all means do so.

    My 4.34$
    UNB FSAE - Weally, weally fast !!!

  2. #12
    Heck yea.
    Goal #1: FFS, make a car that runs. My vetoes as team leader: no turbo, no full aero, no awd, none of that. A basic car will already be 50132012730217 times faster and more fun than any of our street cars.
    Goal #2: Build a car that finishes enduro. I don't care how fast it goes, I don't care how much we score, I want to finish.
    Goal #3: Don't suck in static competitions. Period.
    Goal #4: Get at least a month of driving time.
    Goal #5: Go from zero money, zero space, zero anything, to that in 12 months.
    Goal #6: Build a SWEET car for 2007.
    Sound good?

  3. #13
    Alex,
    Best of luck to you on your goals. At least you have developed these goals. Unfortunately, as a first year FSAE team (did Mini-Baja in the past) we have had to establish a lot of infrastructure at MSU. Between doing this, getting money, and working around all the bureaucratic BS, that alone took us almost two years. So the best of luck to you if you plan on doing all that and building a car in 12 months. Also regarding your #1, those are just completely out of the question (as you have established) but your car will need to be much simpler than that.

    I will be more than happy to give any advice on setting any of this up.

    Good luck,

  4. #14
    Yeah, I know it's ambitious, but don't be surprised if we have a painted gokart out there next year. Thanks for the offer, I'll ask on the forum if I have questions.

  5. #15
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan Nauts:
    I would highly recommend as primary concerns of first year teams to set up the structure of the team, develop a team culture, create a design heirarchy with respect to vehicle systems and setting up a standard design process with the goal of getting well thought out designs with technical merit analyzed, manufactured, tested, installed, and tested again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [SARCASM]
    and you should make it a priority concern to initiate a comittee investigating the effectiveness of buzzwords and mission statements on a culture of excellence.
    [/SARCASM]

    sorry Dan, ive just sat through 4 weeks of lectures by people who talk like that (but, unlike you, with no useful advice) in a management subject that i had actually already passed (with a credit!). it was so boring and un-memorable the first time round that i didnt recognise it the second time round.

    anyway, Auckland were awesome! i hope no1 is directing the flak at them. we had a great race against them out on the endurance track, it was awesome to watch.

    i dont think anyone actually means to be talking down to first year teams. i can see how some posts might be interpreted as "dont do what we do, your too young", but i dont think that is the message they are trying to give.

    having an already built car on hand is a massive resource. being able to see what works and what doesnt can save you weeks in designing stuff. take a mechanical linkage for shifting, if i was coming at it with no experience and no previous car to work off, i would wonder if the joints need bearings, what sort of ratio gives good feedback and travel, how strong the linkage should be, what it should be made out of, etc. etc. i would probably go build a test rig to figure it all out. but having the previous car there means that i can answer all these questions in minutes.

    i think this is why so often teams with experience advise first year teams to keep it simple. and also you really do sympathise when a team can not get their car finished in time for the competition, it would be a horrible feeling.
    - ARC '04 member (now retired ) - Bling Bling Competition winners FSAE-A '04 (and design winners)

  6. #16
    Wait Wait Wait..

    whats wrong with a first year team turbocharging an engine? how else or you goin to get the power out of it that you need? UAA has just declared its first FSAE team and we plan on starting the car in june/july for the 06 year. We are keeping it simple and at the same time being a little creative. Not crazy,creative.

    and would a CVT be too much for a first year team?

    Erin Urvina
    06 Team Leader
    University of Alaska Anchorage

  7. #17
    My team thinks i'm nuts, but we should have a ice racing comp in alaska.

    Maybe i am nuts, but i think it'd be pretty damn fun...

    CVT's don't give you the fun of shifting. i'd hate having one on my car...

    good luck anyway though!
    - Patrick Crane
    Suspension/Testing
    Universtiy of Victoria

  8. #18
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erin:
    Wait Wait Wait..

    whats wrong with a first year team turbocharging an engine? how else or you goin to get the power out of it that you need? UAA has just declared its first FSAE team and we plan on starting the car in june/july for the 06 year. We are keeping it simple and at the same time being a little creative. Not crazy,creative.

    and would a CVT be too much for a first year team?

    Erin Urvina
    06 Team Leader
    University of Alaska Anchorage </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You can get enough power out of the engine without the turbo... There are plenty of top teams that do not run a turbo. A turbo is really more for mid-range punch than top end power on these cars because of the restrictor.

    I would say a CVT is too much for a first year team, but go nuts. The standard sportbike motorcycle engine is much easier to execute, but you already know what is easier.
    Rutgers Formula Racing 04,05, 06

  9. #19
    We just built a really complex car and I kinda wish we had kept it simple.

    TOO MUCH WORK AND NOT ENOUGH FUN!If we HAD kept it simple we'd be driving right now.

    It seems like our cars come out of the shop as first year cars... There are few returning members around to make sure the same mistakes dont happen again so all our cars seem plagued. Ie CV joint (last years endurance 2004). Even though the previous manager (2003) knew that the design wasn't up to snuff.

    Build *whatever* you want as long as everyone on the team feels the same way about the design and make sure they (and the faculty) would be alright with the *consequences* when a complex design doesn't work out. It seems like our team/faculty loves to gamble with trick ideas. I cant stand it.

    KISS will get you a most of the way in FSAE but not quite all the way. But most of the way is good enough to have a lot of fun - and who knows - tell the judges, with frankness and honesty, why you did what did and if your car hauls butt, you just might take it.

    Bruce
    BB

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,690
    Can a first year team win FSAE outright?

    EASILY! But there has to be the right attitude, and some good thinking done early. I would argue that a big disadvantage of many established teams, and the reason that they are perennial losers (ie. never first), is that they are locked into the status quo of building "the standard FSAE car", but with a bit less time/money/resources than other teams.


    Does a FYT need to create the right "team management structure" to be successful?

    NO! I reckon a few uneducated but enthusiastic farmboys could put a winning car together in 3 months. Enthusiasm, practical nous, and a spark of magic, is probably better than a structured Systems Engineering approach. However, from the School's point of view, the structured approach is less likely to produce a really embarassing car if one year the team consists of a bunch of lazy dimwits.


    So what does it take for a FYT to win outright?

    Here are some suggestions:

    1. You have to make it to the start.
    This means completing entry forms and assorted paperwork on time, building a legal car, getting the finished car to and through scrutineering, etc., etc...

    2. You have to make it to the finish.
    A car that doesn't finish Endurance won't win. This means building a reliable car. There are many ways to do "reliable", but KISS and lots of testing are probably the best here.

    3. You have to build a fast car.
    What makes an FSAE car "fast"? Here are some performance parameters, in no particular order. ONLY TWO OF THESE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT. The rest are going to waste your time/money, and stuff your chances of achieving points 1 & 2 above.

    Highest-power, lowest-weight, highest-top-speed, fantastic-brakes, low-aero-drag, high-cornering-G's, slick-shifting-sequential-gearbox, all-wheel-drive-grip, rifle-bullet-acceleration, easy-driveability, grippiest-tyres, really-comfortable-seat, featherbed-ride-suspension, demolition-derby-toughness, electro-hydraulic-differential, minimum-turn-radius-manoeuvrability, miserly-fuel-economy, maximum-aero-downforce.


    Z

    PS. Erin, I don't see any problems with turbo's or CVT's for a first year team - they're common on most farms. But are they what you need?

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