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Hey Guys,
I realise I'm highlighting an old topic but the following might come in useful,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...he-chassissim-system
It's about systematising what you need to do to run race car simulation.
Enjoy
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Hey Guys,
Just a couple of things for this week.
Firstly for those of you who are going to be in Germany on Nov 15, you might want to check this out,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...he-u-s-a-novdec-2012
I've had another 3 registrations today for the simulation bootcamp. Places are filling fast. If you want to go you might want to do something about this sooner rather than later.
Also another thing is to give you a thought for the week,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...measure-up-a-racecar
This was an article I wrote for Racecar Engineering on how to measure up a race car. I've been talking to a lot of students lately and based on my discussions I think you'll get a lot out of this.
Enjoy
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Hey Guys,
I was going through some of my old Racecar Engineering articles and I figured you might get alot out of this,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...-models-from-nothing
It's about creating tyre models from nothing. This is a good primer for getting ready for simulation.
Also places are filling fast for the simulation bootcamp which is now only two weeks away. For those of you in Europe who want to go, email me at info@chassissim.com
All the best
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Danny,
Have you done any correlation of your model against a flat-track tyre test of the same tyre?
Regards,
Ben
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Ben,
My apologies for the late reply. I've been a bit hammered this week.
The short answer with correlating to flat track testing is no because we have never needed to. I say this because the Tyre force modelling toolbox works straight from race data so we have a lot of customers who can usually bypass tyre rig test results and go straight off race data.
Two classic cases in point are V8 Supercars and the ALMS LMPC category. What both of these cars had in common was the tyre test rig results for both of these categories was either not released or had not been done. The correlation we have achieved with both of these cars speaks volumes for the ChassisSim tyre model and the use of the tyre force modelling toolbox. You might find the following link useful,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...illing-in-the-blanks
It’s the how to guide about how to do tyre modelling.
That being said fitting results to flat track data shouldn’t be an issue, I just haven’t done it. However this is just my opinion, if I am creating a tyre model that I want to use in anger, particular in simulation I like to go off race data. The reason I say this is my customers and I have been led up the garden path many times with erroneous rig results.
Don’t get my wrong, I think rig testing and flat track testing have their place and they are valuable tools. I think any tyre company worth their salt would be crazy not to use them.
That being said there is no replacement for looking at race data when you have to use a tyre model in anger. This is no different to validating your engine and aero results on track.
If you have any more questions please don’t hesitate in asking me.
All the Best
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Guys,
On another note - for those of you how are based in Europe and want to attend the simulation bootcamp in Cologne/Koln Germany next week I need to hear from you very shortly.
The details for the seminar are below,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...he-u-s-a-novdec-2012
The venue is starting to press me for numbers. If your interested click on the link and get into contact with me in the next 24 hours.
All the Best
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Thanks for the reply. My concern with this approach is that you're assuming the model is correct therefore the tyre model that fills in the gaps must represent the tyre.Originally posted by ChassisSim:
Ben,
My apologies for the late reply. I've been a bit hammered this week.
The short answer with correlating to flat track testing is no because we have never needed to. I say this because the Tyre force modelling toolbox works straight from race data so we have a lot of customers who can usually bypass tyre rig test results and go straight off race data.
Two classic cases in point are V8 Supercars and the ALMS LMPC category. What both of these cars had in common was the tyre test rig results for both of these categories was either not released or had not been done. The correlation we have achieved with both of these cars speaks volumes for the ChassisSim tyre model and the use of the tyre force modelling toolbox. You might find the following link useful,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...illing-in-the-blanks
It’s the how to guide about how to do tyre modelling.
That being said fitting results to flat track data shouldn’t be an issue, I just haven’t done it. However this is just my opinion, if I am creating a tyre model that I want to use in anger, particular in simulation I like to go off race data. The reason I say this is my customers and I have been led up the garden path many times with erroneous rig results.
Don’t get my wrong, I think rig testing and flat track testing have their place and they are valuable tools. I think any tyre company worth their salt would be crazy not to use them.
That being said there is no replacement for looking at race data when you have to use a tyre model in anger. This is no different to validating your engine and aero results on track.
If you have any more questions please don’t hesitate in asking me.
All the Best
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Presumably if you flat-track tested a tyre and it was different to your ChassisSim tyre model, that would presumably indicate a gap somewhere else in the model?
Ben
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Ben,
As always my friend my apologies for the late reply.
Just to clarify my friend, in reality no tyre model is perfect, particularly the empirical ones. The Pacjeka model and the ChassisSim tyre model are no exceptions to this. A classic case in point with the Pacjeka model is it will always tell you to add negative camber.
Empirical tyre models are approximations and once you make your peace with that you can use it as a tool to help you fill in the blanks of your knowledge.
Alot of what is in the ChassisSim tyre model has been as a direct result of trying to fill in the blanks of stuff I've seen at the race track. I don't claim I get it right all the time but people still find it a good tool so I have to be doing something right! Also if I observe a discrepancy from flat track testing this will tell me something to improve things.
That being said the tyre force modelling toolbox combined with using actual data is arguably one of the most powerful tools ChassisSim has on offer. I say that because not only does ChassisSim give great correlation it gives you the appropriate trends. I've done this without tyre rig results in categories as diverse as A1GP, F3, GP2, ALMS and V8 Supercars to name a few and it has always been my first line of defence at the race track. Not just for me but more importantly for other members of the ChassisSim community.
I will close though with this thought. Yesterday I was having a discussion with a colleague of mine from Cranfield University. We got talking about tyre testing and he made this observation. The results from either rig testing or flat track testing aren't wrong. The problem is there is no guarantee the thermal conditions in the test will match those when you get on track. This is why I like to go from track data. However this is just my opinion.
All the Best
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Hey Guys,
I just thought I'd give everyone the heads up that ChassisSim Professional Online is now live,
https://www.chassissim.com/onlinesimulation/index.php
What this allows you to do is to run ChassisSim Standard, the bump profiling toolbox and the tyre force modelling toolbox on a pay by the simulation basis. It's a great tool to use advanced simulations on a limited budget. The online simulation is ideal for freelance race engineers working in professional categories.
That being said I still think the FSAE community will get alot out of it. If it is something you want to make use of shoot me an email to info@chassissim.com and I'm sure we can figure something out.
Enjoy Guys and Merry Christmas.
All the Best
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
Hey Guys,
I thought I'd give everyone a break down about how straightforward it is to get going with in depth race car simulation,
http://www.chassissim.com/blog...-process-made-simple
Enjoy Guys
Danny Nowlan
Director
ChassisSim Technologies
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