FSAE Tire Test Consortium -- Round 3

[ReinierJ]

Dear all,

At the moment I'm trying to implement the TTC data into an ADAMS model I'm making of our FSAE car.
Doing this I ran into the following problem: TTC delivers a Pacejka 96 model, whilst ADAMS comes with 89, 94 and 2002. After investigating all models by reading the TTC/ADAMS manuals and browsing the internet I came up with the following partial solution:

Take the 2002 model and put the 96 coefficients in. Take all unknowns 0, and disable transient behaviour. This effectively creates a 96 model in the 2002 one. However a number of things cannot be ignored, but are also not present. The TTC data does not include (or I have not been able to find) the vertical damping, peak value and high/low load variation of the rolling radius. These last three might be extractable from the TTC data. But I have my doubts about the damping. ADAMS does need these however.

Also the PKy2 < 0 (Hoosier 20.0x7.5-13 tires) is not accepted by ADAMS.

It amazed me a little that this problem has not popped up on any of the fora before. Is there a solution to this ("known?") problem (converting '96 to '02)?
As well as why PKy2 has the wrong sign by ADAMS liking?

Thanks in advance for any help / pointing me in the right direction.

[BillCobb]

Gimme a tire brand/size/construction that you are wanting to run an experiment on. If you have Matlab, I can maybe provide you with a MF5.2 pure slip fitting routine. A Roll Your Own, so to speak. It that works for you, you will be able to quickly figure out how to do the rest, given 'good' quality tire data. Keep this phrase in mind: "Good Tires Test Well". I suppose that also could mean "Good Tyres Test Well", too !

Interested?

I beleive the answer to your question is as simple as "No ones doing it".

[exFSAE]

I still think it'd be cool for Round 4 (whenever that is) to do some wet testing. Inevitably it tends to rain on at least one day of driving in Detroit.. and from the Oz comp apparently even they are not exempt from bein rained on. Good rain tire would give a pretty big advantage.

Would also just be cool to see what the difference in grip levels is, breakaway traction effects, etc.

[Matthew Bell]

I've been trying to get in touch with Dr. Kasprzak to update our contact information, but have never gotten a reply. We never received a DVD for round 3, but we did get the update ADAMS model via an alum of the team that was kind enough to forward the data to our adviser. Does anyone know who I should contact to make sure that our info is correct?

[Edward M. Kasprzak]

Matthew,

I haven't seen an e-mail from you...don't know why. I'll send you a personal correspondence.

We can check the mailing address and arrange for another Round 3 DVD to be sent. Be sure to look for it when it's expected to arrive. University mail systems are, in general, above average at making things disappear.

It's true I've been very busy this year, but I'm still around and putting time into the FSAE TTC as I can.

Regards,
Edward

[GooDLuC]

Hi Dr. Kasprzak

Is there an expected date for round 4 testing?

Also can we still expect an update to correct problems found with round 3 tire models?

Thanks!

[DougMilliken]

GooDLuC / Université Laval --

No date set yet for Round 4 tests, we will post here (or start a new thread) when we know more.
Likewise for our MRA-donated models.

-- Doug Milliken

[Matthew Bell]

Dr. Kasprzak,
E-mail sent! Thanks again.

[MalcolmG]

Looking back through some recent posts, the topic I'd like to pursue is a secure forum for TTC members to post data and modeling questions/results. If it was really secure, maybe it could also be a distribution channel for future data--sending out 150+ DVD's after the next test is not something we volunteers are looking forward to doing! Has anyone given this more thought?

It's a bit disappointing that nobody else has put their hand up for this. Now is a really bad time for me to go through the quite time consuming task of setting up a good facility for this, with a lot of work ahead of me in the next few months, but if nobody has taken on the job by the end of the year then I'll do it.

[DougMilliken]

Malcolm,
Thanks for your offer of help with a secure server or other system. This problem has not gone away, and the task of data distribution obviously gets a bit larger every time the TTC gets a new member.
-- Doug Milliken