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Thread: Reasoning your way through the FSAE design process

  1. #91
    bump.

    I hate it when this topic falls off the first page.
    Pradeep V. Pandurangi

    DUT Racing Team, TU Delft
    2013: Chassis engineer
    www.dutracing.nl

    Formula Manipal, Manipal University
    2010: Team Leader
    2009: Engine team
    http://www.formulamanipal.in

  2. #92
    Hello,

    Our team, the DMS Racing team from Versailles (France) was created in 2009 and participated for the first time with a car in 2010. As a news team, I think it could be a good idea to write how we set-up the team. I think it could help other teams, especially new one like us.

    First I'll explain the organization in theory we try to use, it's a general organization applicable for every team. In second how we adapt this organization to our team and in third how it works in real. With theses explanations you will understand how we continuously adapt the organization to overcome a lot of problems. This reflect how we build OUR team and for you it'll be probably different. Each team is different, each team have different problems and solutions so don't try to follow our steps but instead learn about them and adapt them.



    Chapter I: General organization

    - Read fsae.com to discover what is formula student.

    - Collect infos to have a global view of what is formula student. All the data need to be classified and easily accessible by team members (DVD, FTP).
    Also you need to classify by area. Ex: Chassis, suspension, engine...
    - Images, articles, books, rules, 3D files, reports, links, videos...
    - Read the rules to understand what your team need to do in a formula student event for static and dynamic event. It give also a better view of what is a FS car. Write a presentation for team members, professors, external people.

    - Create the structure of the team
    - Search on other teams’ website for organization chart
    - Read articles on how to set-up a team (Pat article, fsae.com...)
    - Create different work groups for the design of the car but also functioning of the team (website, search of sponsors, media...)
    - Set-up team communication with weekly team meeting and create a way to centralize data accessible by everybody, everywhere. For example CAD shared with a vpn or discussion through a private forum. For attract people at the weekly meeting a good way is to organize a meal. Non FS activity is also good for team spirit and to relax.
    - Make meetings with actual and potential team members. Discuss on what they want to do in the team and the team need to do.
    - Choose which event the team will participate and create the planning for the whole year with key dates (design step, registration, documents deadlines...).

    - Understanding of the project and clear objective.
    - Every team member need to learn how to have a car at comp. Design member need to see photos, schema, data of other cars, read books, articles, fsae.com, RULES discuss... Members of other areas like marketing, finance need also to learn how to bring money, communicate about the project... Generally people tend to directly start the design of the car without a fully understanding of the objectives, an analysis of the concurrency or even READ THE RULES. Yes, it takes a lot of time to make this boring works and the design don't seem to progress but it's capital to fully understand the competition to set clear goals and work correctly.
    - Set reasonable objectives according to your previous observation. According to your expected human resource, funding, manufacturing capacity...
    you need to set the characteristic of the car.
    - construction : tubular space frame, 4 cylinder engine, 13 inch wheel... (example)
    - dimension : wheelbase, weight...

    - Design of the car
    - Precise planning with priority. Example: The engine need to be acquired quickly to take measure and designed parts attached to it, chassis, intakes...
    - After the conceptual phase each work group will focus on the optimization and integration of their parts in the car and respecting the planning. A delay of one group is not an excuse for other group.

    - Purchase of standard parts and manufacturing. It could take a long time for parts come over the sea and other are donate by sponsors. Make a planning for purchase, building and assembly of parts with priorities.

    - Design of Technical drawings and jig for the construction of parts take time. For example the design of guides for mitering tube is long but it will save you a lot of time during manufacturing. If possible try to have alternative. A sponsor or a member could leave you at the worst moment

    - Start of the construction according to your planning. You will probably have problem so be ready to reorganize you construction planning.

    - Drivers’ selection. It's a problem for new teams as we don't have an old car to test drivers. But generally, a fast driver in a kart will be also fast in a FS. Make clear rules before the selection. As everybody want to be a driver, a non selection could be a frustration if the start rules are not clear. A selection in a local kart circuit is fine. And as FS seat time is precious, only selected drivers can drive the car before races. Plan a test WE for team members and sponsors after the season, it'll motivate everybody.

    - Race preparation
    - Preparation of static events. Static events like the cost report are considered as boring but 1/3 of points are from static events so don't underestimate the preparation, it takes time. Make events simulations to be comfortable and listen comments from team members, professors, family...
    - Competition organization. Van, camping, food... it's what is needed to be prepared for the comfort of the team as you will not have a lot of time to sleep. Don't forget to carry a lot of spare parts. Read the event schedule!
    - Testing. To score points in dynamic event you need to finish first. In the first European event only 1/3 of the cars finish endurance. Two month of testing before a comp is not useless as you need to repair parts, tune the car, and train drivers.

    - Race it and enjoy!

  3. #93
    Chapter II: Below I explain only the adaptation of the previous organization to our team.

    - Project presentation to students and university. January 2009
    I discover Formula Student in December 2008 and as a 2 month placement was needed we proposed to replace the placement by the FS project. I prepare the university presentation and data collect with a friend and this video was an excellent motivation ;-)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ti5G4jFSo

    - Structure team creation. January 2009
    Both we create 5 technical groups: Suspension, frame, engine, brake transmission and one group for marketing, sponsoring, organization constituted by motivated members from technical groups.

    - Understanding of the project and clear objective. January - April 2009

    - Design of the car. May - august 2009

    - Participation to FS Italy in class 3 (only design) September 2010
    We decide to participate at the Italian event because it was the latest European competition. We know from the start that there will not be enough time to complete the car design, but feedback from judges and other teams will be a great help. It will permit us to understand how an event run.

    - Improvement of the design according to FS feedback. September - December 2010

    - Construction phase and drivers’ selection. January - May 2010

    - Testing, tuning, training and races simulations. May - July 2010

    - Participation to Formula Student in England, Germany, Italy. July - September 2010
    We prefer to put money on events instead of car, as results analysis show that reliability is a problem and by maximizing events we improve our probability to complete a competition. Italy was our first choice because it's the latest official European event, so it gives us more time. Also we will meet teams seen last year.
    England came in second because it's the first event, forcing us to finish the car earlier. We finally added Germany as other teams said, "It’s the event you can't miss".

    - Test Session. September 2010
    To motivate and thank team members and sponsors, we decide to make a test day. Each member will have the opportunity to drive the car. Same for top sponsors and friends who helped us.

  4. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    Location
    Stuttgart
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    494
    Originally posted by Hub:
    I prepare the university presentation and data collect with a friend and this video was an excellent motivation ;-)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ti5G4jFSo
    Yeah, our first year car in action!!!

    In general I'd say, you understood how a team has to be organised. A lot of the principles you mentioned are the basis of our team organisation too.

    The important thing is to stick to it. Always. No exceptions. Every time we made exceptions from these principles it caused major problems.

    But as I said, in general what you stated is absolutely correct.
    Rennteam Uni Stuttgart
    2008: Seat and Bodywork
    2009: Team captain

    GreenTeam Uni Stuttgart
    2010: Seat and Bodywork / Lamination whore

    Formula Student Austria
    2012: Operative Team

  5. #95
    Yes Bemo,
    As you said we tried to stick to it, but it's not easy and like you it cause problems when we made exception.
    Below the last part with all the problems we had during the project. I write this because we generally learned more from problems and it's always better to learn from other team.



    Chapter III: How it works in practice to our team.

    - Project presentation to students and university. January 2009
    Students appreciated the project as it permits them to secure a "placement". On the other hand, from the professors’ side, it was the inverse as only two professors supported the project and the other were against. Hopefully, one of the two was the director of our section. One month later, he left the university, but as the project was started, the new director let us do the project instead of a placement.
    This could be a little strange to have professor against a project but our formation has nothing to do with FS. It's a theoretical study with classes focused on how apply math in mechanics. And the last year’s training was about civil construction. We never used a lathe, or learned to tolerance a drawing. Also we didn't have machine shop at university.
    So, the reaction is logical and I understand the reason. One of the advantage is to be free for our decisions.

    - Understanding of the project and clear objective. January - April 2009
    Some students make FS as the project permit them to secure a "placement" and they were clearly less productive than motivated members. During this period there were no hour allocated on our education so only few members learned on the project... The motivated members worked also on website, administration, marketing, sponsors search and it was difficult to find sponsors with no car and image to show as the project started.
    After a long analysis of results, we spot the priority : finish all events from a comp. From last season (2008) Stuttgart was the best team and the car was relatively simple with a space frame chassis and a conventional suspension. We understand that, what make a car fast, is not the visible, like a carbon monocoque, titanium upright, etc. It's what is invisible, like simulation, calculation, ergonomics, etc.. and of course, "to finish first, first you have to finish", so reliability need to be on top.
    In April 2009 we haven't a machine shop, and we have a low budget, limited human resources, we never have designed a car...well, we are a new team. So, we decide to design a conventional car, a simple car. A simple car will be lighter, cheaper, more reliable, faster to design and build. We focus more on practical side than performance.
    - Spaceframe chassis: Easier to build, modify and repair.
    - 4 cylinder engine: 4 cylinder are available, cheap, and strong. Also, as our first car will be heavy, we need an engine with enough power.
    - 13 inch rims: available, easier package inside the wheel, more tire choice.
    - 250 Kg and 80 HP as objective: We wanted a simple car and 250Kg was a conventional value.
    - Initial budget of 20 000€ for the total team budget including donated parts and travel to the UK event.

    - Design of the car. May - august 2009
    From May to June all students worked together in the same room. Working in the same room make design easier as we could exchange points of view and help each other. We also decide to make a meeting every week as it permits to members of each group to have feedbacks and an understanding of the whole car.
    The university project finish in June and the design was far from finished. It's the result of students doing a project just to complete course, professors not supervising attendance and a project far from our course. From the 15 students who started the project, only 5 continue, and with the summer holiday, it was pretty slow.

    - Participation to FS Italy in class 3 (only design) September 2010
    Two (one?) week before the competition, people started to be more assiduous but our preparation was far from finished. We finish our design poster the night before the design event and print them in A4 paper. Our preparation was not good and the design far from finished but every member has a relatively good understanding of the car, a good presentation to judges and our objective to make a simple car was very appreciated. Finally, we surprisingly achieve a second place out of 5 teams. A great help to add credibility, attract sponsors and motivate members.

    - Improvement of the design according to FS feedback. September 2010 - January 2011
    From September 2010 to December 2010 the design ran slowly due to many facts: lack of allocated courses, room to work, sponsors, partners to build the car. We had to work each on our side and meet once per week. It was not the ideal as it motivates less to work. And to attract people at meetings, we tried to have a meal from time to time. Fortunately, a technical faculty of our university 50 Km away let us use their machine shop and helped us to manufacture and buy parts. Also, 3 students from this faculty integrated the team with FS being part of their school project. Unfortunately, they were not motivated. So we loss a lot of time, and 2 month later, when the project was finished, they disappeared. 3 other students joined the project at the end of the year, but with sandwich courses they were only present 50% at faculty. Fortunately, they were motivated and continue to work after the project’s end.

    - Construction phase and driver selection. February - July 2010
    One month after our initial schedule, we start the car construction. One month is a lot and the design was not finished but construction had to start if we wanted to have time to build parts. Also, we didn't have access to the machine shop after the day and during weekend, so each Friday and Monday, we had to transport parts to my cellar to be able to work during weekend. This constraint required to adapt our method and planning. Days of the week, we worked on parts that required complex tools like TIG equipment, lathe, etc. In the evening we worked on design, purchase, report... The weekend, as my cellar is small and not well equipped, we worked on "light" tasks, grinding tubes, electrical harness, assembly. This was not easy, but the hardest point was human resource. During the construction’s period, we were nearly only two guys working on the car and three at part-time as they were in sandwich courses. Also manufacturing took more time than expected so we had to save time and we changed a few things in the car. We go for a conventional gear selector instead of a pneumatic, we use aluminium plates for bodywork, we don't install ARB and a lot more. Finally the car was ready the day before first dynamic event of Formula Student. Initially, it was planed to finish it two months before...

    - Testing, tuning, training and race simulation. May - July 2010
    We had the luck to have in our team a motivated, talented and experienced driver. He started driving race cars at fifteen on various categories, as kart, rally, circuit, GT and single seater. Also, his student job was driving instructor on circuit and that's why he became responsible for drivers’ selection and training. Early in the project, he wrote the drivers selection’s rules, as we know a lot of people want to drive, but seats are rare and non selected drivers could be frustrated. Drivers’ selection was made on a unique rental kart with two test, lap and slalom time after training. The two best drivers will make the endurance and autocross. Third and fourth, skidpad and acceleration. Two other will be reserve drivers. After the selection and car completed, drivers will be trained on the car, but the car was on it wheels three days before the departure...
    For the first planed test, two days before the departure, smoke get away from the ECU and inspection shows a burned component. So, we go to England without testing, but with a new ECU and a corrected harness (faulty fan routing). The choice to buy an easy available ECU in France paid, as we quickly replaced it.

    - Participation to Formula Student in England, Germany, Italy. July - September 2010

    - FS UK -
    Our car was in rolling conditions, but not ready for scrutineering, so the first two days, we finished the car and resolved another problem. Our new calculator, installed just before the departure, was also out of order. We worked the night to find the problem and fortunately, only the fan control was out of order in our old ECU, permitting us to use it again with a few modifications, to allow manual fan control.
    Static events didn't go well, as we didn't have time to correctly prepared them, so a lot of points were lost. We passed a first scrutineering the day before first dynamic events and corrected a few things.
    For the first dynamic day we had to pass, in the morning, a second scrutineering, tilt test, noise test, brake test, skid-pad, acceleration and we made it! Brake test was the very first drive of the car and we were surprised to have a rolling car. As we never tested the car, our driver quickly tested vital functions of the car and braked progressively to assure it won’t break at higher speed.
    Skidpad didn't go well, due to untrained drivers and above all, a brutal engine at low rev and old tires (we didn’t receive our tires before departure, so we used tires given by another team, but there were narrow tires, and old so very hard tires). Acceleration was better but we lacked grip. For Autocross, we didn't walk on the track as we were busy with the car. In my case, I never drove a race car so it was a nightmare, touching a lot of cones and doing off courses. Our best driver managed it well, but with our tires, we only reached 7.5 points.
    One more time, the night was short as we corrected a few problems. We were very tired for endurance but the car was ready.
    Unfortunately, a penalty for being one car late at starting put us off the points, but at least we finished the endurance and all events!

    Between FS UK and FS DE
    Between the two races, we disassembled the car to paint it, then reassemble it, put new tires and tested it one day.

    - FS DE -
    For Germany we were on the waiting list until the 30th July but we prepared the event before the registration. The static events were a little more prepared in general, except cost, so we stayed with a poor result. Scrutineering was well and we had less things to correct. With only one day of testing and new tires, performance improved a lot on dynamic events. At Silverstone autocross we were at 15 sec behind leader, but in Hockenheim we reduced the gap to 4.3 sec with a gear selector problem. Due to a broken steering wheel on the third lap of endurance, our lap time increased by 5 sec per lap but we finished endurance (at 17th place in spite of this lost of time).

    Between FS DE and FS IT
    We had one month between the two races and it was planned to train drivers and setup the car. Unfortunately, it was difficult to find a test track and we made only one day of testing. Also, a lot of members were in holiday or started to work.

    - FS IT -
    Our static results improved slightly and dynamic a bit more (11th place in autocross), except for endurance. Due to damaged heater fins, our temperature raised too much and during driver change, water leaked from the venting hose, disqualifying us for endurance.

    - Test Session. September 2010
    As planned, we made a test session for sponsors and team members during 2 days. It rained the two days but it permitted to thank people and companies who helped us.
    They first drove a kart to get familiarised with the track and after they switched to the FS. In total, 27 sessions were made with our car and a bit more with the kart.

    Conclusion:
    As you can see, FS is a complex project and you always get some difficulties at some moment. For me, a good team will keep reasonable objective, respect deadlines, build a car in accordance to its capacities and be flexible to overcome problems.
    As said before by a lot of teams, testing is important and our result between England and Germany shows it, by improving from 157 to 418 points.
    Finishing is also important when presenting the car to judges. In England, our pedal box had no paint and was slightly rust covered, so judges’ comments were not good. "Brake pedal support too soft, stiffness of pedal box inadequate, pedal ratio too high, pedals maybe too hard. Safety concern regarding pedal box." In Germany, with just only a good paint, it was different and judges were impressed by the lightness and simplicity.

    For FS and not only, money make people dream, but personally I think it's not an important parameter. For me, the most important is to have motivated members, as they will bring you money from sponsors, make the job in time and much more...

    Thanks to have take the time to read this long post and I hope it'll help you.

  6. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    762
    Thanks everyone for your contributions, there is some really useful stuff being posted (thanks Hub, Bemo, etc.) Sorry to interrupt, but I've had a few spare minutes here and there and have been collecting the odd thoughts. Time to unleash my cooking analogy...

    Formula Masterchef

    There is a proliferation of cooking shows on Australian television, and it has got me thinking about the similarities between being a good chef and being a good engineer. It is a subject close to my heart as I spent 10 years working in a kitchen, and much of what I have learnt about good project management comes from that experience.

    In Masterchef (or Iron Chef, or pick your own local variation), the contestants try to prove to the judges that they are the best chef. They do this by presenting the best dish that they can with the resources available to them.
    In Formula SAE (or Formula Student, or pick your own local variation), the contestants try to prove to the judges that they are the best engineers. They do this by presenting the best car that they can with the resources available to them

    When we came into FSAE, Cornell was doing a brilliant roast beef as their signature dish. The meat was cooked perfectly each year, they made a great gravy, the veggies were spot on. Cornell knew that as long as they kept pumping out their own signature dish, and as long as everyone else thought this was a competition about the best roast beef, then they could pretty well keep the big trophy back at the shop on permanent display. When I visited FSAE Detroit in 2006, I was gobsmacked at how many plates of roast beef were being served up.

    Cornell’s competitive advantage was that they had perfected their signature dish. As long as the opposition’s strategy was to “copy the winners”, then at best they could match Cornell but it would be damn hard to overtake them.

    This competition became interesting when a critical mass of teams started looking into the competition itself and realizing it was not about the best roast beef, it was about who was the best chef.

    So Cornell continued with their roast beef with Yorkshire pudding, red wine gravy and roasted vegetables. They continued doing a damn good job.
    Wollongong did a similar roast beef, and did a damn good job of that too.
    Monash did roast too, but it had wings. Let’s call it roast turkey
    UWA went rather gourmet, aiming for the top end of town. So lets call their dish seared scallops & vegetable fettuccine with saffron beurre blanc (thanks Mr Google).
    We looked at our resources, and our history of failed main courses, and realizing we are just simple folk we decided “stuff it, let’s make a chocolate cake”. We served it with fresh berries, home made ice- cream and raspberry coulis.

    Believe me, when we showed up with our first cake, there were any number of “experts” who, smugly or out of a deep feeling of concern for us, felt obliged to tell us that our cake looked nothing like roast beef. Wow, really???

    Anyway, now to start beating this analogy to death….

    I’ll start with a couple of sayings I’ve heard that I’ll throw in for good measure:
    A master chef is one who can serve up a 5-star meal from the cheapest of ingredients.
    An engineer can do for $10 what any idiot can do for $100.
    Take those and run with them if you wish.

    It is not just about the ingredients
    I’ve had common old lamb shanks that were brilliant, and top line eye fillets that were appalling. The former indicates culinary expertise, the latter a misguided waste of good resources.
    Don’t think you’ll impress anyone just because you’ve got an eye fillet. It is what you do with it that counts

    Don’t worry about your neighbour’s pantry
    Linked to the above, don’t sweat it if your neighbour has access to eye fillets. So what? You can be a great chef without them. Play your own game

    It ain’t Christmas dinner if you serve it in February.
    A Christmas dinner is served on December 25th, maybe 6pm. Everyone knows that. When the guests sit down at the table, they are expecting to see food, and you had better serve it to them. A hungry customer ain’t going to be impressed by an empty plate and a story about how good the meal might be if he came back next month.
    Put something on the plate. It might not be what you initially wanted, but any meal is better than none. 70% of FSAE chefs each year fail to present a complete plate.

    Don’t cherry-pick others’ designs
    Cornell might be complimented on their red wine gravy
    UWA might be complimented on their seared scallops
    RMIT might be complimented on their home made ice- cream
    It doesn’t mean that the best meal of all would be seared scallops with home made ice- cream and red wine gravy
    I’ve seen some awful Frankenstein’s monsters of cars, (I’m thinking of one I saw that had our engine, Cornell’s turbo, RIT’s rolling chassis and geometry. Overweight, underpowered, underbraked, unreliable and drank copious amounts of fuel). Think of how the ingredients work with each other.

    Your design is never going to be all things to all people
    Some people like big hearty meals. Some like light meals. Some like savoury food, some like desserts. Some people just want to get drunk. Design something that fits all the above and you have lost the plot. No-one wants a roast beef with seared scallop chocolate cake and beer smoothie.
    The judges will look at your design on its own merits. They know you cannot build a car that will win acceleration, and fuel economy, and endurance, and cost event, and skid pad…
    Explain which are your priorities, and how your design integrates with these priorities.

    Be flexible
    Sometimes food goes out of season, suppliers can’t supply, etc. Don’t stubbornly stick to your path if it you are not possibly going to deliver. Accept it, deal with it, change plans, move on.

    Design Event / Design Review
    Yes, Pat Clarke can see you have made roast beef. Yes, he is happy you know how long you cooked it for (and would be happier if you knew that a roast should be cooked until it is 65-70 degrees in the middle – that shows a greater understanding). Yes he can see you have served it with gravy, potatoes and peas. But he also wants to know WHY DID YOU SERVE ROAST BEEF? Why not a cake? Why not seafood? Why not an apple?

    We made some good chocolate cakes in our time. We answered the “what” and the “how” reasonably well, but we rarely did a good job of explaining “why”.

    The answer is in the rules, and in your resources…


    The limitations of science
    The scientific method of developing a product is as follows:
    ? Take existing product
    ? Make one change, test modified product
    ? If modified product is better, adopt change. If worse, reject change.
    ? Repeat process

    Science is great for refining your gravy recipe or your cooking times. It is lousy for high level, big picture concept change.

    Try scientifically “optimizing” your way from:
    Roast beef with Yorkshire pudding, red wine gravy and roasted vegetables
    To:
    Chocolate mud cake served with fresh berries, home made ice- cream and raspberry coulis

    All the intermediate steps are awful.
    Roast beef with Yorkshire pudding, home made ice- cream and roasted vegetables
    Roast beef with Yorkshire pudding, red wine gravy and raspberry coulis
    Roast beef with fresh berries, red wine gravy and roasted vegetables
    Chocolate mud cake with Yorkshire pudding, red wine gravy and roasted vegetables
    Etc etc.

    If you only had scientific enquiry as your development tool, you would never get from roast to cake or vice versa. Scientific process is a useful tool, but you have got to know its limitations too…

    And that is the fun of engineering. It is a little bit science, but it is also art and imagination and creativity too.


    That is all for now, I'm going for a walk. I'll return to this later.

    Cheers!

    Geoff
    Geoff Pearson

    RMIT FSAE 02-04
    Monash FSAE 05
    RMIT FSAE 06-07

    Design it. Build it. Break it.

  7. #97
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    Location
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    Originally posted by Big Bird:
    Some people just want to get drunk.
    "This year, we had all members of our team read Geoff Pearson's highly-lauded 'Reasoning your way through the FSAE design process' write-up. We decided that our top-level design philosophy was to build a car that would consume obscene amounts of E85, demonstrate increasingly lethargic transient response, not start before 1pm, and gain weight in its midsection over time."
    -----------------------------------
    Matt Birt
    Engine Calibration and Performance Engineer, Enovation Controls
    Former Powertrain Lead, Kettering University CSC/FSAE team
    1st place Fuel Efficiency 2013 FSAE, FSAE West, Formula North
    1st place overall 2014 Clean Snowmobile Challenge

  8. #98
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    232
    Geoff,

    The first part of your write up was excellent, this metaphor section is genius.

    "[The] cake looked nothing like roast beef"

    Will

  9. #99
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    47
    has anyone ever had albatross flavoured icecream?
    ______________________
    Steven Webb
    2010 Suspension Leader
    2011 Chief Engineer
    2013-?? Curious alumni
    Monash Motorsport

  10. #100
    Geoff!!!!

    A fantastic analogy! I love it!

    Congratulations

    Pat
    The trick is ... There is no trick!

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