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Thread: radiator design

  1. #11
    Well, I just did a little thinking. Our engine is 600cc, and is raced pretty hard at FSAE. Being around motorcycles for a long time, I've noticed that the factory motorcycle race teams always put on larger radiators. So, it made sense to not use a 600cc radiator, but pick one from a larger displacement sportbike. Most sportbike radiators are curved, but not all are. The '93-'94 Honda CBR900RR and '98-'00 Honda CBR1000XX radiators are flat. We used a XX radiator with 2 smaller puller style fans without any problems, and I believe we could go to 1 slightly larger fan. I just purchased another XX radiator off E-bay for $50. I love E-bay. I have not seen a RR radiator on E-bay, so good luck. The extreme sportbike guys crash those bikes A LOT making videos.

    Yes, I do realize that there should be some analysis going into the cooling system design, but the testing proved that what we have works and holds any temperature we set in the ECU. More testing will prove if we can get rid of the weight of one fan. Cheap, aluminum and light, and it works. Well, only cheap if you get them used. The XX radiator is $500 from a dealer, and the RR radiator is $600.

    Cyclone Racing
    www.cyclone-racing.com/fhome.htm
    Iowa State University
    Project Director

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Kirkland, Washington
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    369
    I just finished writing a program for radiator sizing. It is a javascript app and is currently available hereRadiator Program.

    I would like all the feedback I can get. For those of you that have been able to do a fair amount of testing on your cooling system if you could give the program a try and tell me if it seems to give you the same numbers that you have gotten experimentally or by hand it would be very appreciated.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    I have fixed all the errors in the program that I have found. I have also added a little bit of an explanation for some of parameters.

    I know a few of you have at least looked at the program if you haven't used it. Any feedback I can get would be very helpful.

    Thanks

  4. #14
    I've read a couple of places (mostly webistes and postings) that the heat output from the engine can be approximated by using the shaft power. Is this just a rule of thumb or can someone direct me to book or something? Some of the team members are designing the cooling system for our senior design project so we need something more to go on than forum postings. Thanks a lot. Just reading these posting have been incredibly helpful. Hope to see you all in Detriot in 2004!

    - Jonathan Strunk
    Mercer FSAE
    Macon, GA

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Kirkland, Washington
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    One way that you could measure the heat load of the engine is to measure temperature before and after the radiator and also the flow rate of the water. By doing this you know the change in temperature and the amount of water that is flowing now multiplying temperature change times mass flow rate times specific heat will give you the heat load, Q.

    The method above using the specific fuel consumption of the engine will give you an aproximate value if you have a good idea of how much of the heat is rejected by the engine into the cooling system.

  6. #16
    i would guess that the shaft power thing assumes every engine has a constant inefficiency. ie. rule of thumb. dont bother with it, it cant get you accurate enough for a senior design project.

    - if it isnt coming, you need a bigger tool.

  7. #17
    Thanks for the help everyone!

    Jonathan Strunk
    Cooling System Team Leader
    Mercer FSAE
    Mercer University
    Macon, GA

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    With regards to beaver guys comments above check out these pictures

    http://www-personal.monash.edu.au/~fsae/03build.htm

    Scroll down to where is says James' Radiator Test rig. Logging temps on the car will be used for comparison.

    Regards,

    Scott Wordley

    http://www-personal.monash.edu.au/~fsae

  9. #19
    Last year our car used 2 7x9x1.5 radiators from Ron Davis Racing, about 16 fpi. It stayed nice and cool, as long as both had fans on (not even shrouded, at that) when it idled. Right now we're testing a 12x9x1.4 18 fpi radiator off the Honda Rubicon ATV, using a mathmodel that a (now)grad student developed it should be of adequate size...


    -Luke Thompson
    Vandals Racing 2003-04
    University of Idaho

  10. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Austin, TX USA
    Posts
    28
    Last year we used a stock F4i radiator (~9x17x1) along with a small oil cooler. Both had shrouded fans and we have never had any issues. We have reduced the radiator size this year while keeping the same size oil cooler (though changing from steel to aluminum). The F4i (and earlier Hondas as I recall) have oil jets directed at the back of the piston so cooling the oil (with air, not just the stock liquid-liquid) can have a more dramatic effect than increasing the size of the water radiator.

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