+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 39

Thread: Wet Weather Tyres for Formula SAE !

  1. #11
    I couldn't believe that such a major rule change was happening wothout debate, and I am glad I reposted it !

    Slan Leat
    Sleeque

    [This message was edited by Admin on November 21, 2002 at 07:57 PM.]

  2. #12
    At the competition last year, Carroll Smith made mention that they were seriously considering a wet weather plan like Formula Student for this year. Based on that, we figured into our budget for a set of rains.

    The rain tire rule poses a series of interesting questions.

    1. Michael Royce in his post on the SAE forum says something to the effect that "it's ok to make a rules change halfway into things since this doesn't affect the design of the cars in any way." Last time I read Carroll Smith's books, it told me that suspension design starts from the tire, and goes in. We now have no idea what tire we will be using. Can we run both slicks and wets? Are they going to mandate a molded rain tread? Can we run cut slicks? Shaved treaded tires? Each of these tire options is going to have a different spring rate, and affect suspension design in some way, be it spring rates, anti roll bar calcs, etc. etc.

    2. Cost report - which tires do we spec on the cost report? I know hoosier rains cost about $40 more per tire than the slicks do. Do we need to cost 2 sets of wheels and 2 sets of tires?

    3. Weigh in - which tires (if we have a choice b/n slick and wet) do we weigh in with? Same goes for wheels.

    4. Tire changing facilities - is Tom from Mid Atlantic Motorsport going to be there with a huge stock of rains, and be able to change and/or cut tires for everyone when it rains? I'm sure some teams would love to be able to hold off on spending for rain tires if they can.

    5. Shaved tires - I know if we get a pair of molded rain tires, we will want to shave them. Those suckers are heavy.

    6. Scoring - how will they equalize or handicap scores when there are wet and dry runs in an event? Not to mention just the differences in tires. One idea is to follow the SCCA Pro racing protocol. Call the event a dry event, teams have the choice of running slicks, or changing to wets if they desire (on road events they would come in and pit, and swap to wets). When they call it a wet event, everyone has to run wets, even if it doesnt rain. Doing this would at least even out the playing field as far as the loss of traction from a treaded tire. But it would also require every team to have wet tires on hand.

    7. Wet weather testing - we have a real hard time with this one. 5 years ago, our campus autox club sponsored an event, but it was rained out. Our car and the car from Union college showed up. Everyone left, but the guys from Union stuck around for a bit, and some schmuck from our school (not on the team, just some random student) convinced them to hop in the car and take it out (in the rain, on slicks). 2 minutes later, he stuffs it under a metal barrier, head split open, and in a coma. Needless to say, Union's program was promptly ended, and ours came under close scrutiny for safety. The fact that our current test site is that same parking lot, I don't know how well the idea of wet weather testing there will go over. We are trying to find an airport to test at, but how many schools Risk Management offices are going to support moves like that?

    That all came up at this week's team meeting. I'm sure a lot of people have thought the same things. There is also the cost factor involved, as so many teams out there scrape by to get a car built, and don't have the cash handy to drop it on a second set of wheels/tires. We're lucky to be one of those larger number/"big-budget" teams.

    www.formularpi.com
    Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
    Formula SAE '00 - '04
    Team Leader '01 - '03
    www.formularpi.com

  3. #13
    Racing in the wet is not better than racing at all. UCF got screwed out of all points in the endurance race last year because it was raining. With the new rule, even if you only had slicks, you could still put the car around the course and finish for some points.

    Chris Maher
    Secretary,
    University of Central Florida,
    Society of Automotive Engineers
    info@ucfmotorsports.com
    www.ucfmotorsports.com
    Chris Maher
    Secretary,
    University of Central Florida,
    Society of Automotive Engineers
    info@ucfmotorsports.com
    www.ucfmotorsports.com

  4. #14
    Whoops, that first statement didn't come out right.
    Racing in the wet is better than not racing at all.
    There, thats better.

    Chris Maher
    Secretary,
    University of Central Florida,
    Society of Automotive Engineers
    info@ucfmotorsports.com
    www.ucfmotorsports.com
    Chris Maher
    Secretary,
    University of Central Florida,
    Society of Automotive Engineers
    info@ucfmotorsports.com
    www.ucfmotorsports.com

  5. #15
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Maher:
    With the new rule, even if you only had slicks, you could still put the car around the course and finish for some points.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If I'm not mistaken the rule explicitly states if it rains, you run rain tires, if you don't have rain tires, you forfeit anyway.

    They say thier specific definition of rain tires is forthcoming...

    -Charlie Ping
    Auburn University FSAE 1999-present
    -Charlie Ping

    Auburn FSAE Alum 00-04

  6. #16
    ...it depends what their definition of forthcoming is. There have been strong arguments made by many on the non-trivial nature of this rule change, both administratively and in terms of performance.

    If it takes them a couple of months to work out the details - and I suspect it will, since their initial release sounds well-intentioned but still sketchy, logic would suggest this rule change be put in place for 2004 so that teams can digest its implications and plan accordingly.

    As for 2003 - and 2002 - the simplest solution to ensuring everyone runs endurance in the dry is to allow the time for that to happen. The Road and Track thing really should've been bumped to allow the 50+ schools that didn't get a chance to run the honor of doing so. I'm sure the schools that did run in the Road and Track competition wouldn't have minded the wait much. Bumps the banquet too, but you can hold that as an informal event if need be. People don't spend nine months building a car to see other cars run and eat pizza.
    ---
    Michael Jones
    Cornell Racing 2001-2005
    PhD Candidate, University of Toronto, Faculty of Information
    http://www.yafle.ca/fsae

  7. #17
    Like Formula One and other forms of open wheeled racing like British F3, we SHOULD engineer our cars and be prepared to train our drivers in the wet.

    On the argument that there will be 'dry' times and 'wet' times: I wish they would post the fastest lap at Formula Student this year. It was done in the wet by our car, beating out teams racing in the dry. And yes, we did indeed have to sit on the tarmac with half slicks and half rains on.... and decide on which tire to go w/ in the seconds before we raced. The rims don't matter. As long as there is the tyre support.

    Good for FSAE for letting us run in the rain like real racers. Buy a set of rains, it costs $1000. Save the money by just wearing tshirts instead of fancy polos. And if it's lap times and driver training that you're going to complain about...... I say, build a proper fast car, and tell your driver to be cautious (we never did any wet weather testing)

    It's all about what you build.

    University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca
    Vinh Pham
    Toronto FSAE Alumni 01-04
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca
    2003 Formula Student Champs!

  8. #18
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> vinHonda
    "Buy a set of rains, it costs $1000. Save the money by just wearing tshirts instead of fancy polos."
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You guys must have a big team and a big budget. For us it is not so simple. We may have trouble coming up with the cash to buy t-shirts.


    James Waltman
    waltmaj@cc.wwu.edu
    Formula SAE
    Vehicle Research Institute at
    Western Washington University
    James Waltman
    VRI at WWU Alumn
    FSAE ˜01 to ˜05
    http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/

  9. #19
    Which is another good thread!

    How is everyone's budget??

    University of Toronto's Formula SAE Racing Team Budget for the 2002 racing season including trip to the UK to compete in Formula Student was: $35,000 CDN. Which is approx $24,000 USD.

    Our team is small, with only 14 team members.

    University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca
    Vinh Pham
    Toronto FSAE Alumni 01-04
    www.fsae.utoronto.ca
    2003 Formula Student Champs!

  10. #20
    McGill Racing Team did well last year with peanuts...

    Overall we never had more than 10000$ CDN, about 6250$ US...

    Of course we got so free material and a lot of us spend of their own money...

    I would like to know if some of Canadian Universities get money from their Engineering Department... last year we got 1000$ CDN...

    David Lemire
    Team Leader
    McGill Racing Team
    David Lemire
    McGill Racing Team - www.fsae.mcgill.ca
    2001-2002 Team Leader in Training ;-)
    2002-2004 Team Leader

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts