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Thread: car engine for fsae

  1. #51

  2. #52
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    Location
    Corvallis, Oregon
    Posts
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    Originally posted by RenM:
    The last 12 competitions have been won by cars
    with 4 cylinder engines.
    Formula Student Austria was won by a single, out placing the team (but not the car) that won Michigan.

  3. #53
    Originally posted by RenM:

    have those teams that switched been any successful?
    The last 12 competitions have been won by cars
    with 4 cylinder engines.
    And the fact that 3/4 of the design finalists in MI were singles doesn't mean anything because you don't reach a design final because of your engine concept, but your teams ability to explain it to the judges. And remember: the design winner was a 4 cylinder car...

    And another thing to note: UAS Graz have a good engine, but their concept is imho wrong for fsae. Even though they have less power and drive consistently slower then the top 4 cylinder teams they used a lot more fuel...
    Well...
    UW Madison won MI in '07, UTA and Penn State, despite not winning overall in some time, still have solid, well-developed programs, as well as KU and OU who are consistently very solid. And I'd really be shocked if a 4 cyl team were to ever get under 300 lbs.

    I know I can speak for us (even though our best finish to date was 7th at MI in '06, along with a string of top 20 finishes) that switching to a single did set us back developmentally...if I were to tack a number on it I'd say 3-5 years...it was like starting with an entirely new design. There are still some teething issues, but I still strongly feel that the package has potential.

    The point is there are a lot of solid teams out there that are already making that switch, that is a fact. Singles have proven competitive with less displacement. But it is still quite early to say...all the teams that have been switching to singles are just now getting things sorted out.

    And this doesn't change the issue at hand: The inherent drawbacks of a single will not be fixed by increasing displacement.
    Dr. Adam Witthauer
    Iowa State University 2002-2013 alum

    Mad Scientist, Gonzo Racewerks Unincorporated, Intl.

  4. #54
    Adambomb, increasing displacement of 1 cylinder would not fix their inherit drawbacks, but it would make them more competitive, considering currently availible 4 cylnder and 1 cylnder engines.
    4 cylnders get to pumping limit at cca 12k rpm and singles don't get up to that, increased volume would make that pumping limit lower.

    One more thing i forgot to mention:
    4 cylinder 600cc
    1 cylinder 850cc
    option for multiple restrictor
    1 restrictor 20 mm
    2 restrictor 14 mm

  5. #55
    Originally posted by barba_p:
    option for multiple restrictor
    1 restrictor 20 mm
    2 restrictor 14 mm
    Maybe I'm missing something obvious here but (regardless of the fact that two 14mm restrictors will flow at least 5% less air than a single 20mm restrictor) what possible reason could someone have for running two restrictors?
    Simon
    ----------------------------------------
    Powertrain Research Student 2010-2013

    Team Principal 2009-2010
    Engine Development 2008-2009
    Brunel Racing

  6. #56
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    Originally posted by Simon Dingle:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by barba_p:
    option for multiple restrictor
    1 restrictor 20 mm
    2 restrictor 14 mm
    Maybe I'm missing something obvious here but (regardless of the fact that two 14mm restrictors will flow at least 5% less air than a single 20mm restrictor) what possible reason could someone have for running two restrictors? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    well if you wanted to run 2 separate engines (currently legal per the rules) then you could split the intake rather than one intake and restrictor as per the current rules.

    or thats my guess anyways
    Any views or opinions expressed by me may in no way reflect those of Stewart-Haas Racing, Kettering University, or their employees, students, administrators or sponsors.

  7. #57
    I'm not sure if I am completely missing the point here but surely an 850 single is going to negate the point of having a single in the first place
    i.e. an 850cc single is going to weigh considerably more than the 450cc and 520cc engines currently in use, meaning that you would loose the super-lightweight vehicle concept. In which case, it makes far more sense to go with a multi cylinder engine and make use of the extra power and smoother power delivery???

    Ed
    University of Glasgow BEng 2003-2007
    Oxford Brookes MSc 2007-2008
    University of Glasgow PhD 2009 - god knows when.....
    WORK ....
    --------------------------------------------
    Preliminary operational tests proved inconclusive.... It blew up when we flipped the switch

  8. #58
    @ ed_pratt: I don't want stop people from using 450cc engines, bu just to give them option to use 650, perhaps with bore kit
    Hell, if you want, use 250cc 4 cylnder

    @ Simon Dingle: 2 restrictors, (thanks AxelRipper), but also to mention individual throttles for 2 cylinder engines

  9. #59
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    Originally posted by barba_p:
    Adambomb, increasing displacement of 1 cylinder would not fix their inherit drawbacks, but it would make them more competitive, considering currently availible 4 cylnder and 1 cylnder engines.
    4 cylnders get to pumping limit at cca 12k rpm and singles don't get up to that, increased volume would make that pumping limit lower.

    One more thing i forgot to mention:
    4 cylinder 600cc
    1 cylinder 850cc
    option for multiple restrictor
    1 restrictor 20 mm
    2 restrictor 14 mm
    it wont make them anymore competitive. They donīt develop more power because they cant suck air as constant through the restrictor as multiple cylinder engines can. Changing the displacement wont change anything about that.

    And no one who has a slight understanding of engines will change a 20mm restrictor for 2 14mm restrictors.

  10. #60
    no.no.no I will not give up on this topic!
    2 14mm restrictors have only 2%smaller crossection, maybe someone would try them, counting on throttle response

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