Design Judging

[theTTshark]

Who do I need to contact to see if design judges are still needed for Michigan?

Experience: 4 years with a Championship winning NASCAR team.

[sidkash14]

Steve Fox is the man. PM'd you the contact.

[Charles Kaneb]

If you serve at Michigan, now that Z has judged at Australasia, are there any regular posters left who aren't DJs?

[Owen Thomas]

I pop in every once in a while, just a lowly tech inspector.

[theTTshark]

Charles, I don't really think so, which is super unfortunate. Seems like the area that every US team (Canada too probably?) outside of Oregon State and ETS is struggling with is knowledge transfer and "knowledge building". The Germans, Austrians, etc seem to continuously build their knowledge base and abilities, but American teams tend now to go on 3 to 5 year runs, then experience sharp declines. I always felt like when I started out that this forum was a great resource outside of alumni and experienced memebers to actually learn things you needed to as well as have students and judges open up the possibilities of what you can do. Seems like the Facebook and Reddit FSAE groups now are more interested in seeing what everyone else is doing or complaining. You don't really see the super helpful vehicle dynamics or team building posts that members would put here. But maybe after 4 years away from the competition I'm becoming an old man and I just don't see those conversations happening (doesn't mean they aren't somewhere)..."GET OFF MY LAWN!"

[Claude Rouelle]

Charles, I don't really think so, which is super unfortunate. Seems like the area that every US team (Canada too probably?) outside of Oregon State and ETS is struggling with is knowledge transfer and "knowledge building". The Germans, Austrians, etc seem to continuously build their knowledge base and abilities, but American teams tend now to go on 3 to 5 year runs, then experience sharp declines. I always felt like when I started out that this forum was a great resource outside of alumni and experienced memebers to actually learn things you needed to as well as have students and judges open up the possibilities of what you can do. Seems like the Facebook and Reddit FSAE groups now are more interested in seeing what everyone else is doing or complaining. You don't really see the super helpful vehicle dynamics or team building posts that members would put here. But maybe after 4 years away from the competition I'm becoming an old man and I just don't see those conversations happening (doesn't mean they aren't somewhere)..."GET OFF MY LAWN!"

Yes European have a more professional organization (as it is in their racing habits). But look at India and Brazil: they are coming. And coming quick. They are coming from nearly nowhere but they ask the right questions, they are learning how to simulate and how to test quickly. Thar are hungry, more hungry than US and OZ students, no offense it is a reality that I see several times a year after year, that I see it every year. I would not be surprised to have an Indian team in the top 10 of FSG within 3 or 4 years

As far as the FSAE forum (Vs Facebook discussion groups) slower and slower pace and usefulness, who is it to blame? Facebook efficiency or FSAE lack of marketing and international communication? This forum is mainly a US thing. You see many German, Japanese, Indian,... people here?

Aging? Aging quickly? Well, aren't you in Nascar?....

[coleasterling]

If you ask the Reddit or Facebook groups, it is because this place is toxic with posters being called out and shamed by people like Claude and Z too regularly. I mostly see people migrating towards platforms they are more comfortable with. Traditional forums in general are dying, sadly. I personally despise trying to find information on a topic through Facebook.

It does seem like there isn't as much technical discussion on FB or Reddit. I can't think of the last time I saved a discussion from either of those. That said, they both have groups of people who genuinely enjoy helping, just like here. Just not my preferred place.

On the topic of knowledge transfer, it seems like US teams on average aren't as serious about FSAE as overseas. There's also the minority of school-run/senior design teams that intentionally limit knowledge transfer to maintain ambiguity going into capstone courses. They care far more about making sure students adhere to their version of learning the Design Process than they do about FSAE progress or results. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it is a contributing factor to lack of progression.

[DougMilliken]

If you ask the Reddit or Facebook groups,...

I've heard the "shaming" explanation too, and certainly agree that an unexpected dressing-down can be a shock. On the other hand, the usual suspects have been posting here in the same way, for many years (at least that's my impression). So, why the drop off at this time? I have a hunch that there are some other explanations.

Anyone? Why did you stop posting on FSAE.com? Anything to do with access to these pages over a phone (instead of larger screen)?

Personally, I hate trying to follow anything on Reddit, and have no use at all for Facebook. I'm sticking here for now.

[turtle]

Anyone? Why did you stop posting on FSAE.com? Anything to do with access to these pages over a phone (instead of larger screen)?

The demographic of users here is not representative of the Formula SAE community. Combine that with changing attitudes and technology, you have users flocking to other platforms with discussion more relevant to their concerns. Perhaps it is signalling of a disconnect between student and 'teacher'.

Snowflake or not, we aren't going to change the culture of an entire generation. @theTTshark, I applaud you for recognising the culture shift and contributing to the FSAE community as a design judge.

[Owen Thomas]

Z,

You are cherry-picking what you want out of my post and taking it out of context. This is, sadly, expected and your attack adds weight to my statements.

My point certainly wasn't that it is difficult to find a washroom at a trade show, or that people aren't willing to put up with assholes at all for some valuable experience or information - this is very much a reality in every engineering workplace. It is that compared to these forums, there are *better options* for people to seek help or information and that your preferred method of teaching is ineffective.

The entire analogy was to highlight that in order for people to be successful, they just need to be pointed in the right direction. MOST young engineers that I know want to put in the work and figure things out themselves, but everyone has to start somewhere and stupid questions happen. Calling names and going on a tirade about today's youth is unnecessary and does nothing but feed your ego - something that has no place in a professional environment. There are lots of people in the world, and indeed even on these forums, that can be educational and respectful. If you truly cared about teaching future generations you would adapt your strategy to be more effective. Read a (modern) book on the topic, there has been significant research and some drastic changes in methodology in the last 20-30 years.