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Thread: FSAE Australasia 2017

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sydney Australia
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    The trick is... There is no trick

  2. #2
    https://days.to/until/7-december

    Two weeks to go.

    Registered teams:

    https://i.imgur.com/FF9Wnvr.png

    Running teams (as indicated by social media):
    Monash x2
    Melbourne Uni/MUR (IC only)
    RMIT Electric Racing
    UTS Motorsports Electric
    UNSW Redback Racing
    Tokyo Denki
    Griffith

    Not running yet/unknown:
    Wollongong
    Swinburne
    RMIT IC
    Wesmo
    Auckland
    UQ
    James Cook
    UTas
    Curtin
    UNSW ADFA
    University of Sydney
    Western Sydney University
    UniSA

    Pulled out:
    Canterbury
    ECU

    Any corrections welcome.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by tim_pattinson; 11-22-2017 at 06:10 AM. Reason: Updated list

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Good to hear, the Aus Comp is back on track. I knew that there were some Troubles, but I had no idea that it was that bad. Hopefully it can further recover. An end of this competition would probably end FSAE for this Region of the world entirely as for most Teams taking part there the only alternatives are overseas which is beyond most teams' possibilities I guess.
    Rennteam Uni Stuttgart
    2008: Seat and Bodywork
    2009: Team captain

    GreenTeam Uni Stuttgart
    2010: Seat and Bodywork / Lamination whore

    Formula Student Austria
    2012: Operative Team

  4. #4
    I saw UQ and Auckland having their rollouts today; also ADFA uploaded a video with their car on dyno. Hope to see more teams running soon!

  5. #5
    So, day 1 is past now. Any updates/hashtags/lists?

    P.S. Nice to see Z around and (what seems) involved with design. Does that mean we are getting your awesome detailed insights once more Z?
    Last edited by mech5496; 12-08-2017 at 02:30 AM.

  6. #6
    Monash won combustion, Curtain 2nd.
    Monash won EV, UTS 2nd.

    All results very much deserved.

    The MU combustion car really did look quite beautiful on track even though the engine noise really did make you think it needed twin vertical exhaust stacks to be complete.

    On the whole Monash put in a consistent effort everywhere and this bore through. We might add, as design judges, the SAE-A featured a 'use of resources' category this year - put in place specifically to ensure that teams with lesser resources were not unfairly disadvantaged - Monash still won both design. Deservedly.

    By all means take photos of other cars to learn from, I'd hope some teams seek out Scott W to ask about how to build that most important component: culture. It's been quite an achievement.

    A special mention/prize/commendation/thanks go to the organisers. A few people worked very hard and contributed much to make the event happen at all. None of them want to be named publicly. They are each miracle workers - the event happened and ran very smoothly this year. I'd suggest it's in a good place for the future.

  7. #7
    Harry,

    I too am looking forward to comments from our favourite dribbling scribbler from Planet Zed publications!

    I saw the photo on the Monash FB page and wondered whether he had become a DJ. Z??

    Monash seems to have absolutely slaughtered this one! Congrats to them.

  8. #8
    I really look forward to see the Monash cars in Europe.

    For now, huge congratulations to the team. What an incredibly impressive domination! Pulling off such a perfect event is a once in a lifetime thing. We tried it often and it very rarely worked out.. and that was just one car!

    Sadly, after all these performances we need to ask "How tough was the competition?" Especially in the E class, it seems as if Australia is trailing multiple years behind Europe. Accel times over 4.2 are just sad. We had 3.7s in 2011...
    But I think the E car for Monash was absolutely the right call. Start simple, get to know those red ampere bugs and then start the real stuff. Scott, if you read this, one favor: Let's risk something. Your C car is enough for consistently performing "safely". I want the 2018 Monash E car to be 4WD and bonkers! "Go big or go home" should be the working mode.

    The Monash C car -on paper- lacks behind Europe as well since ~5ish years. I understand where Claude is coming from. A 210kg Single Cylinder is not a competitive concept. However, I heard and saw quite amazing things performance wise. Really look forward to see if we can kill the "weight myth" if there is one. Esslingen showed it last year at FSG that you can win with a -on paper- overweight car...

    Bring on 2018!
    -------------------------------------------
    Alumnus
    AMZ Racing
    ETH Zürich

    2010-2011: Suspension
    2012: Aerodynamics
    2013: Technical Lead

    2014: FSA Engineering Design Judge

  9. #9
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    Australia
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    1,655
    Harry,

    Nice to see Z around and (what seems) involved with design. Does that mean we are getting your awesome detailed insights once more Z?
    Some of the DJ's insights are available here:

    "Formula SAE-A 2017 Forum Live" on You-Tube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEZcVu3OCYc

    Be warned, the "production quality" of this feedback is similar to the competition as a whole, namely BAD! Maybe more on that later.

    Some of my thoughts are at 1:05:20 -> 1:12:20, regarding the "Good and bad points seen at DE", taken from my "Concept, Integration. & Management" judging section.

    Given that some sound is missing, I repeat here that the good teams are the ones that manage their year to get lots of "driver seat-time", which invariably leads to much success (eg. Monash driving since June). Bad point is that too many bottom-of-ladder teams waffle on endlessly about "optimising [whatever]", when they should instead be doing a simple, but boring,"cost-benefit analysis of the points-delta available from [whatever]", as Monash does.

    At 1:35:00 -> 1:40:00 is my response to "How do we close the gap between the Oz-teams?". I suggested that someone could "shoot Scott", to pull Monash down (= joke!), or else the lower teams should "follow the numbers", if they want to raise their performance.

    BTW, my public speaking experience mostly involves coaching Rugby League players, usually in a large paddock at night, with a few dim street lights in the distance. This works best by shouting at top of voice, and waving arms around a lot. Hence my microphone technique is not yet "optimised". Sorry.
    ~~~o0o~~~

    GTS,

    ...the event happened and ran very smoothly this year. I'd suggest it's in a good place for the future.
    IMO, this year's event was no better than any other Oz-comp in the last 17 years. It had arguably the worst "vibe" of any that I have attended.

    The results were the same as ever before. A few good teams, invariably because of good Faculty Advisors. But mostly very poorly performing teams who seem to have little sense of the "right direction" for success.

    The best chance Monash have of getting to Number-1 in the world-rankings, and staying there, is if they have an exceptionally strong local competition in which to hone their skills. As an example, see the recent Rugby League World Cup where Australia obliterated all other nations, a direct result of the Australian NRL being the strongest competition in the world. Only Britain came close to us, and that was only because all their key players play here!

    If the FSAE-Australasia competition is to become stronger, then the organisers MUST FOCUS ON LIFTING THE PERFORMANCE OF THE WEAKER TEAMS (and NOT shooting Scott!).

    This will not happen by handing out "gold stars" to all the hopeless losers. So why all the "Speciality Awards", ... again!!!?

    This will not happen by organising an event with all the excitement of Grandma's funeral. Geez, hosting a good party is not hard. FWIW, it needs only three ingredients:
    1. A focal point (eg. the cars!).
    2. Good food and drinks.
    3. MUSIC!!! Preferably with an MC/DJ who cracks jokes, spreads gossip, and generally spices things up between the "easy listening" background music.

    Most importantly, a strong local comp will not happen if the organisers ignore the many well-reasoned suggestions being put forward, and instead stick with the "same-old same-old is good enough" thinking. Which seems to be the case, at this stage.
    ~~~o0o~~~

    Vishnu,

    ... looking forward to comments from our favourite dribbling scribbler from Planet Zed publications!
    Methinks I might be of more help to the lower teams by quitting DJ-ing, and going back to dribbling and scribbling.
    ~~~o0o~~~

    Julian,

    I really look forward to see the Monash cars in Europe...
    ... Sadly, after all these performances we need to ask "How tough was the competition?"
    Answer: NOT VERY!

    Monash got burned last year by over-complicating their car (= an electro-pneumatic-CLUTCH, +++!), and thus only managed third overall. Pain is an excellent educator. So this year they went back to basics. Their clearly stated goal was to "Maximise the sum of competition points from the E and C-cars". So both cars were running in June. And, in short, they ran like Swiss watches!

    Meanwhile...
    ... in the E class, it seems as if Australia is trailing multiple years behind Europe. Accel times over 4.2 are just sad. We had 3.7s in 2011...
    Firstly, the Accel track is relatively low-grip (= rounded gravel in old and dusty bitumen). But more relevantly, both Monash cars were beaten by the UQ E-car, but only in its second last (?) run. (All teams were allowed as many runs as they were capable of entering.)

    So, why the dramatic last-gasp victory by UQ?

    Well, UQ only started driving a few weeks before comp! And, apparently, their "Electron Whisperer", a box of wires-n-stuff sitting between the battery and motor, had not yet had time to whisper into the ears of the electrons, to tell them what they were supposed to do. Or something about "closed-loop feedback parameters still being programmed in...".

    So after each run (or every second run?) the UQ Computer-Geek would plug into the car, and whisper to the E-Whisperer to tell the electrons that they should push a little harder than they did last time. So the times steadily dropped. But I doubt the electrons ever pushed with a full 60 kW of oomph. And, BTW, with ~62% rear-weight, the rear-tyres never visibly slipped at the start-line, at all.

    The relatively small UQ team's new management plan for 2018 is to "evolve/polish" this E-car, while simultaneously building a "new-concept" C-car. Then the following year they will evolve the C-car, while building a new-concept E-car, and so on. This E-car certainly has a lot of potential, but we have to wait and see what they will squeeze out of it...

    Incidently, one of the things Monash focussed on this year was the difference between a concept's "potential", and that concept's "utilisation". Namely, what you think the concept can do, and what it actually does. I am sure Monash will happily talk about this with the other teams here, but first those other teams have to ask for such help!
    ~o0o~

    I want the 2018 Monash E car to be 4WD and bonkers! "Go big or go home"...
    Piffle! My sims suggest that other, non-4WD, concepts are better. "Bonkers" yes, but "big" NO.

    Ahhh, more of that "pathetic" testicle-driven decision making again. I expected better from you, Julian.
    ~~~o0o~~~

    To all 2018 Oz-Teams, that are not Monash.

    PLEASE, for 2018, find a simple concept, finish it early, test it mercilessly, then start kicking Monash's butt!

    And NO MORE TESTICLE-DRIVEN PUSH/PULLRODS&ROCKERS, or other such junk.

    Z

    (PS. I still haven't seen all the results. Long drive home. Need sleep now. Maybe more later...)

  10. #10
    Nice update! Watched that vid after work yesterday, but sound was really bad.. I believe the FSAE-A competition has a lot to learn in terms of organization through involving alumnis more. Take a look at FS Austria or FS East for successful events practically ran by alumnis.

    Also agree on the team preparation front. By stalking teams through social media, Monash win seemed certain even weeks before comp. I do not mean to take anything out from their double win, it was well deserved, but I believe that even them would be way happier with more competition. Piece of advice, do not shoot Scott; he's super nice, and really knowledgeable, so talk to him instead, and keep your ears (and most importantly your minds) open.

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