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Thread: 2017 FSUK Competiton & FS East Entry List

  1. #1

    2017 FSUK Competiton & FS East Entry List

    After the British GP was moved back a week, the FSUK competition was forced to move and as such falls on the same weekend as the FS East competition.

    Looking at the registration list for FS East it looks like many teams have deserted FSUK in favour of FS East.

    This thread isn't designed to hate on FSUK, as a 4x competitor and now 1x judge of the competition I honestly wish it the best of luck. But I thought it was worth pointing out on here that clearly the damage done in last year's UK competition appears to have had a lasting effect.

    Since you have to submit an application to FSUK very early on (early December I think?) I believe it's likely that there will be many teams entered in both competitions, and this could lead to a high drop-out rate in one or the other. I would be keen to hear from some current team members and see what their intentions are before I submit my application to volunteer to judge at UK again, as I probably won't bother if the top teams won't be there.

    George
    Last edited by GSimmons63; 01-19-2017 at 03:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Zurich, Delft and Rennteam Stuttgart are going to East for sure. Karlsruhe as well
    Greenteam is on one of the top slots for the waiting list for East. I expect them to make it to East as well.

    There are just too many reasons to not go to the UK.
    As you don't want a hate-thread, I won't go into the details but yes, UK is no longer a Tier 1 competition but potentially they finally get their British winner...
    -------------------------------------------
    Alumnus
    AMZ Racing
    ETH Zürich

    2010-2011: Suspension
    2012: Aerodynamics
    2013: Technical Lead

    2014: FSA Engineering Design Judge

  3. #3
    I had exactly the same thoughts when I saw the team announcements and registration list for FS-East posted this morning.

    At the end of the day, teams are (highly invested) customers of these competitions and when there are so many options to choose from in the European summer, it really becomes a buyers market.

    We have all heard very good reports from last year's East and with them stepping up to 60 teams this year and a better track/venue (?) they are now a serious world class option.

    Couple that with the dramas seen at FSUK last year, the date overlap and FS-East's choice to side with the new simplified and sensible FSG rule set (incorporating Driveless) it is pretty obvious why the top teams are all trying to go to East.

    The closed door FSUK panel selection process is also a pretty scary proposition for many teams.

    Will be very interesting to see the final hit that FSUK takes from this, but it looks like it will be significant.
    Playing devil's advocate, will FS UK soon become a back-water competition, with only UK teams and a few far flung visitors?

    Its going to be interesting to see it all play out, and it will certainly affect future travel plans for many teams.

    Scott

    PS: Also how good was it to see so many FSG Driveless registrations!
    Once again the core group of Teams and Alumni behind the continental FS competitions showing that they can drive this competition forward.
    Last edited by Scott Monash; 01-19-2017 at 09:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JulianH View Post

    There are just too many reasons to not go to the UK.
    As you don't want a hate-thread, I won't go into the details but yes, UK is no longer a Tier 1 competition but potentially they finally get their British winner...
    I imagine a UK winner would have the iMechE announce this year's competition a resounding success despite the obvious lack of decent competition.

    Apparently the entry fee for this year's competition was £2217. Comparing that to FSG's €750 Euros, and FSH ~€1000 with some reasonable travel costs it would still be cheaper for the UK teams themselves to attend 2 competitions in europe than compete on home soil!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GSimmons63 View Post
    I imagine a UK winner would have the iMechE announce this year's competition a resounding success despite the obvious lack of decent competition.

    Apparently the entry fee for this year's competition was £2217. Comparing that to FSG's €750 Euros, and FSH ~€1000 with some reasonable travel costs it would still be cheaper for the UK teams themselves to attend 2 competitions in europe than compete on home soil!
    Absolutely agree on this.
    -------------------------------------------
    Alumnus
    AMZ Racing
    ETH Zürich

    2010-2011: Suspension
    2012: Aerodynamics
    2013: Technical Lead

    2014: FSA Engineering Design Judge

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Monash View Post
    I had exactly the same thoughts when I saw the team announcements and registration list for FS-East posted this morning.

    At the end of the day, teams are (highly invested) customers of these competitions and when there are so many options to choose from in the European summer, it really becomes a buyers market.

    We have all heard very good reports from last year's East and with them stepping up to 60 teams this year and a better track/venue (?) they are now a serious world class option.

    Couple that with the dramas seen at FSUK last year, the date overlap and FS-East's choice to side with the new simplified and sensible FSG rule set (incorporating Driveless) it is pretty obvious why the top teams are all trying to go to East.

    The closed door FSUK panel selection process is also a pretty scary proposition for many teams.

    Will be very interesting to see the final hit that FSUK takes from this, but it looks like it will be significant.
    Playing devil's advocate, will FS UK soon become a back-water competition, with only UK teams and a few far flung visitors?

    Its going to be interesting to see it all play out, and it will certainly affect future travel plans for many teams.

    Scott

    PS: Also how good was it to see so many FSG Driveless registrations!
    Once again the core group of Teams and Alumni behind the continental FS competitions showing that they can drive this competition forward.
    Given FS East's history and the comments you mentioned above, could the devil's advocate stretch so far as a breakaway competition in the UK in similar fashion?

  7. #7
    As fun as a breakaway competition might be; before going rogue, we should probably approach the IMechE with these issues, to see if we can't instigate change to the existing competition. I wouldn't be half surprised if most of the people there are blissfully ignorant of our plight, floating around in a silent bubble all of their own. I'd like to at least try to burst that bubble.

    We've discussed this a little in the UK Collaborative Network group on FB. So, unless someone with more diplomacy chops steps up to the plate, I'll put a draft proposal together that we can work on. When it's near completion we should aim to get a consensus from the main FSUK stakeholder teams. Following which an online petition be created, which will be 'attached' to the proposal and handing to the IMechE.
    Dunk
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Brunel Racing
    2010-11 - Drivetrain Development Engineer
    2011-12 - Consultant and Long Distance Dogsbody
    2012-13 - Chassis, Bodywork & Aerodynamics manager

    2014-present - Engineer at Jaguar Land Rover

  8. #8
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    In my opinion it is indeed the case that with the increasing number of competitions in Europe that you can see it as a market of Events with the Teams as customers. Back when I was a Team member there were only three Events in Europe so if you wanted to go to three Events you registered to all of them and that's it.

    With a high number of Events and overlapping competition Dates, the Teams have to choose which Events they want to attend. In my opinion there is a clear tendency that Teams prefer competitions which are organised by alumni of FSAE Teams. The Events like UK and Italy are organised by the Engineering organisations and especially in England the Organisation is completely intransparent which is frustrating for the participating Teams.
    Rennteam Uni Stuttgart
    2008: Seat and Bodywork
    2009: Team captain

    GreenTeam Uni Stuttgart
    2010: Seat and Bodywork / Lamination whore

    Formula Student Austria
    2012: Operative Team

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunk Mckay View Post
    As fun as a breakaway competition might be; before going rogue, we should probably approach the IMechE with these issues, to see if we can't instigate change to the existing competition. I wouldn't be half surprised if most of the people there are blissfully ignorant of our plight, floating around in a silent bubble all of their own. I'd like to at least try to burst that bubble.

    We've discussed this a little in the UK Collaborative Network group on FB. So, unless someone with more diplomacy chops steps up to the plate, I'll put a draft proposal together that we can work on. When it's near completion we should aim to get a consensus from the main FSUK stakeholder teams. Following which an online petition be created, which will be 'attached' to the proposal and handing to the IMechE.

    Believe me Dunk, back in the day, when I was competing, I exchanged dozens of e-mails with the IMechE and nothing(!) helped.
    This organization is as stubborn as it gets.
    At one point it is just not fun anymore and the teams take their "talent" elsewhere.

    Fully agree with Bemo, that alumni run FSAE events clearly outperform the rest; although Spain (which is kind of run from an engineering organization) does a good job to keep it fun.
    -------------------------------------------
    Alumnus
    AMZ Racing
    ETH Zürich

    2010-2011: Suspension
    2012: Aerodynamics
    2013: Technical Lead

    2014: FSA Engineering Design Judge

  10. #10
    They are indeed stubborn, and exceptionally 'hard of hearing'. But I'm hoping (although perhaps, not expecting) that a communication 'signed' by a large number of people, including plenty of alumni that are chartered members of the institution itself, will carry at least some weight.

    If it does indeed fall on deaf ears, then at least word will have spread that teams and alumni are dissatisfied. This would be a starting point for getting people enough people engaged in organising a separate event.

    As far as getting one of those off the ground, does anyone on here have any pointers. My first thought was to start by trying to arrange a pre-season dress rehearsal event, with half a dozen teams. Book-out Bruntingthorpe for a weekend and split the costs. Then have alumni turn up to marshall and judge the events.
    If all goes well, figure out how to scale up to say 25 teams and go from there.
    Dunk
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Brunel Racing
    2010-11 - Drivetrain Development Engineer
    2011-12 - Consultant and Long Distance Dogsbody
    2012-13 - Chassis, Bodywork & Aerodynamics manager

    2014-present - Engineer at Jaguar Land Rover

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