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Thread: 2016 Formula SAE Michigan

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Thijs View Post
    So for them to finish 7th in the endurance, almost 5 seconds a lap slower than TU Graz is a whole new experience.
    Any insights as to what happened here? GFR's previous car was on average 4,5 seconds a lap FASTER when racing the same TU Graz car in Germany last year.
    New drivers? The average lap times of the two drivers were very different, despite being quite similar at previous events.
    Or was something wrong with the car/simply not enough test kms?
    Phil wasn't driving at this competition.

    Actually, Dr. ill, since you're here. What's the story on that?
    Last edited by MCoach; 05-18-2016 at 09:06 PM. Reason: addressing Phillip directly. :P
    Kettering University Vehicle Dynamics
    Formula SAE 2010 - 2015
    Clean Snowmobile Powertrain 2012 - 2015

    Boogityland 2015 - Present

  2. #32
    Shows you how much of it is actually up to the drivers...so much for a "design" competition.

  3. #33
    Well I think I can answer a few questions. First, Phil didn't drive at comp this year but he did take a wack in testing and the new crop of drivers are just about as fast as he is, so I wouldn't drop the onus of on track speed on the driver change.

    If you look at autox, driver 1 went out and set safe laps and driver 2 only got to set 1 lap since the organisers ended the event while he was staged for his second run. So, his first lap of autoX is what was counted.

    Then, looking at the times plus the track conditions, at the start of the GFR run the track was very wet. Very Very wet. By the last 4 or so laps of driver 2's run the track was much drier and the racing line could have been called 'damp'. In the 'damp' conditions the tires were coming alive and set one of the faster laps of the day - Graz still ~3 seconds faster. The wet tire choice for MIS was an intermediate wet rather than a full wet and both drivers admitted it was like driving on ice while the track was wet. The tires couldn't warm up and they weren't shedding enough of the standing water which was on track.

    As race engineers, the team made the wrong call opting for intermediate wet tires rather than full wets. Live and learn, right?
    Last edited by Swiftus; 05-18-2016 at 10:11 PM.
    Jay Swift
    Combustion Powertrain
    Global Formula Racing 2013-2014

  4. #34
    I can share your sympathies there. I watched the Kettering boys go out on slicks just as it started to hail. unkind words may have been muttered. The struggle is real. The track was declared "damp" up to the point they red flagged it. It actually looked better conditions when they flagged it than when they let all the cars slightly before and after Kettering go out on dry tires.
    Last edited by MCoach; 05-19-2016 at 09:04 AM.
    Kettering University Vehicle Dynamics
    Formula SAE 2010 - 2015
    Clean Snowmobile Powertrain 2012 - 2015

    Boogityland 2015 - Present

  5. #35
    1000's of students have their ideas criticized in every imaginable - when will it be ok to ask the organizers of this event why we continue to have this even at a location and time of year with such terrible weather? Rain, snow, hail, tornadoes, I've seen it all there.

    And if you want to make the competition less about driving, you should probably make the course very rudimentary.
    Mike Cook
    It's an engineering competition, not an over-engineering competition!

  6. #36
    Alright, thanks for clearing that up.
    I had assumed that GFR had been on track at the same time as the eventual endurance top 3 teams since they were the four fastest teams during autocross, so rain didn't immediately come to mind as the most probable explanation.

    Back to a previous topic:
    Bemo, considering that you've been involved in the organisation of FSAE events, as a rules guy no less, I'm wondering if people have misunderstood what you were trying to say about how to approach the cost event.
    You appeared to be making a case for creative accounting. Was that really the point you were trying to get across?
    Formula Student Team Delft

    2007 - 2008: Powertrain, Suspension
    2009: Technical Lead
    2010 - present: Grumpy Old Fart/Concerned Citizen

  7. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    I just wanted to make a statement regarding the current situation in the cost event. I didn't say, it's a good thing, that it works this way. It's just the explenation how those results are possible.

    In 2009 the cost rules were completely revised. Before there were no cost tables, instead you had to show invoices or catalogue pages for purchased parts and just assume a machining and labour time for manufactured parts. Back then the situation was even more stupid. At some point we handed in cost reports with a total cost of less then 6000$ without receiving any penalties and without being extremely cheap comparing the competition.

    The current rules were made to improve the situation and make the total cost of the reports more relating to the actual cost of the car. In my opinion this will never really work as it is not realistic to really go through the entire report at the event. You will only be able to pick some parts and check them. Overall you will score better if you cheat at every single part to get the cost down and take the penalty for the three or four parts which are checked at the competition. Therefore my opinion is, that giving away points for the total cost of the car should be skipped as it will always be unfair and result in a competition about creative accounting. I would prefer an event which really focuses on a very detailed and complete report showing the real costs (if there is no points penalty, there is no reason to cheat at this number) and add some real case scenario questions similar to what is already implemented.
    Rennteam Uni Stuttgart
    2008: Seat and Bodywork
    2009: Team captain

    GreenTeam Uni Stuttgart
    2010: Seat and Bodywork / Lamination whore

    Formula Student Austria
    2012: Operative Team

  8. #38
    The finalized results of FSAEM 2016 were posted. A little bit of a shuffle but nothing major in the final results standings.
    Jay Swift
    Combustion Powertrain
    Global Formula Racing 2013-2014

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