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Thread: 2014 FSAE-Australasia

  1. #11
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    Jonny,

    Given your good early start, and some of your "Indian-style" posts, I am not sure if you are just kidding?

    Anyway, I suggest that your main goal is to get a car to Melbourne that can drive 30 km at an average speed of 50 kph. NO compromises on this one!

    Otherwise:

    Panic now, rather than later.

    Second-hand tyres are fine.

    Bodywork can be made from plywood (seriously, it can be better than CF).

    The finished car does NOT have to be pretty, or superlight (too late for these now, and they DO NOT matter).

    Get the guy who always has new girlfriends to do Presentation.

    Get the guy who loves telling jokes to do Design.

    I don't have a clue about Cost.

    Keep the whole Team well-lubricated, but not while driving.

    Good luck!

    Z

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
    Get the guy who loves telling jokes to do Design.
    Get the person that knows first principles to do design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
    I don't have a clue about Cost.
    Not an attitude 2014 aspirants should seek to emulate

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post

    I don't have a clue about Cost.


    Z
    Thanks for the comments, but as GTS said... Oh my goodness! Do you realise "cost" is about half the FSAE program? Such ignorance, I blame your educators!

    But seriously, I was prompted by seeing Tokyo Denki posting a pic on FB of their hard copy Cost Report ready to post to Melbourne snail mail. I quickly had to get our electronic copy and print it out. This took a whole day... 250 page document bound into a book and posted to Melbourne (even tho we had emailed it).

    "Cost" encompasses all of manufacturing in this program, both real and imaginary. At the competition we have a cost scenario to tackle...
    University of Tasmania (UTAS)

  4. #14
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    Cost is an interesting case, and varies in importance between the upper and lower teams. I would argue it is even more important for the lower teams. Cost score is almost certainly not based on the performance of the car and data shows that the best cost teams are usually not the fastest teams. It means that nearly all cost points are open to all teams. For the teams earning around 400 points the cost event could end up being 20% of their score. Conversely for a team above 800 points the cost event may end up being only 10% of their score. In the midpack the points available for the dynamic events is greatly reduced due to the scaling effect of the faster teams. This means that cost will have a larger impact on the placing order in this area. Please note that design scores tend to follow the order of performance. If you add in marketing you find these two events will account for around 25-30% of a 400-500 point team. Only half of that for the top teams.

    It is easy for teams to calculate how many points a $1k saving on the final cost should get you and how that equates to time on the track. Gaining 15 points in cost is the same as gaining 15 points in autocross. Simple fact is that cost should influence your design a fair bit, especially when there is a substantial performance gap between your team and the leaders. There is little justification for midpack teams running drexler diffs, ohlins shocks, AP racing master cylinders etc. You will get more points by putting a cheaper component in for the definite points advantage and taking the miniscule (if any) hit to performance.

    Beyond that the rest of the points are for good reporting, avoiding penalties and manufacturing justification, all of which can be done well in advance. There are good examples floating around about how this can be done.

    As an interesting aside this year's cost example in Australia is very full on. Possibly the most amount of work expected for the least amount of points on offer, so it will be interesting to see the difference in effort put in by teams. I think the expectations for this part of the Australian event (just the cost example) have exceeded what is reasonable, given that the teams already produce a fairly time consuming document which they have to defend at comp.

    Kev

  5. #15
    Would suggest (potentially more elegantly) Kev that design for cost (or at least with cost awareness, not cost as an afterthought) is potentially one of only areas of competition where nearly universally all students putting in 100% effort are immediately 1,000% more useful as graduates. Cost has touchpoints in a good amount of practical engineering - far beyond what a part, assembly, system or product actually ends up costing.

    So build it in, get it right. It's not in the competition just to ensure it's not a spending war, and it's certainly not in there to prove your worth at stuffing random numbers into templates... (a few of you have CFD for that).

  6. #16
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    An FYI for any Teams near Sydney, or passing through on the way to FSAE-Oz-2014.

    Next weekend, November 29 and 30, Eastern Creek Raceway (aka "Sydney Motorsport Park") is hosting the "Tasman Trophy" Historic Racecar Meeting.

    Attending one of these days is a great opportunity for you students to absorb 50+ years of motor racing's "prior art". (And you can also absorb gallons of deep-fried cholesterol, by eating ANY of the food on offer!)

    Learn how to design spaceframes (most of the racecars are from that era), and suspension bits like axle-bearings, uprights, linkages, little-gubbins, etc., and study the evolution of brakes, engines, aero, etc., etc...

    In fact, I suggest a little competition to keep you busy. See who can find the car that scores highest on (Number of races won) x (Number of "REIB" on the car). Or maybe just find the car that has won at least one Championship, and has the most REIB.

    Anyway, this would be especially useful for students who will be designing NEXT year's FSAE car. See what has ACTUALLY worked in the past, and compare it with what you see in Melbourne two weeks later...

    Ahhh... yes..., I can already smell those delicious fish-flavoured cholesterol burgers...

    Z

  7. #17
    That is a good idea. Reverse engineering or at least knowing what went before helps you make something, anything... If we could get our car up to a robust level of a late 70s formula car with similar fasteners, I would be very happy at this point.

    We have a healthy calender of historic racing at Baskerville Hobart, I go occasionally. And yes I see those REIB.

    (UTAS engine is running, going back on the dyno in a few days.)
    University of Tasmania (UTAS)

  8. #18
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    Does anyone know if there is a "Driver Swap" day following this year's Oz comp? The Calder Park website makes no such mention...

    I reckon it was the most "educational" part of last year's comp, with very good feedback of all the most important "Design" stuff, eg. ergonomics, power usability, handling foibles, etc...

    Z

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
    Does anyone know if there is a "Driver Swap" day following this year's Oz comp? The Calder Park website makes no such mention...

    I reckon it was the most "educational" part of last year's comp, with very good feedback of all the most important "Design" stuff, eg. ergonomics, power usability, handling foibles, etc...

    Z
    I had heard that something may or may not be getting organised at Haunted Hills on the Tuesday.

  10. #20
    I'm very excited to see all these cars revealed on the other side of the world for the last big wing, loud exhaust, real race car competition before the sissy rules kick in for this year.
    Kettering University Vehicle Dynamics
    Formula SAE 2010 - 2015
    Clean Snowmobile Powertrain 2012 - 2015

    Boogityland 2015 - Present

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