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Thread: LETTER OF INVITATION

  1. #21
    Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fantomas:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.
    Do you notice how he says "this year"? Adapt in his sentence reads "copy" in my opinion.

    To those of you who do not know the story behind my comment, here it is (from a reliable source):
    Last year TU Munich was asked to bring their car to FSC to do demonstration runs at the 2011 chinese competitions. TU Munich did not ask to officially compete, but was asked to hand in the necessary documents like Design Report, Cost Report etc. When they were asked, the official deadlines for these documents had already passed, but the officials of the chinese competition granted new deadlines due to the special situation and the fact that they invited them on short notice.

    TU Munich showed up on the event and it turned out that they would be integrated into the event as a normal competitor. They of course started to dominate the event and with every event, static or dynamic, in which they did well, the organisers increased the penalty for the "late" submission of their cost report. In fact it was not late, because they were granted a different deadline, but suddenly the original deadline applied. Another argument was that the car costs more than the maximum 15k$ limit in the chinese competition. So they reduced their cost score after each event by applying penalties. When they reached zero it seems that they figured out that that could not have been enough and so Munich started to score negative points in cost!
    Before the start of Endurance they already had -37pts in cost. After the Endurance this has been adjusted to -105pts in cost. During the Endurance they lapped faster than 3-5s per lap than the fastest team. Mysterically the Endurance scoring does not reflect this...
    They came second with, in fact, 205pts taken away arbitrary from them to prevent them from winning and still managed to come in second with a gap of 28pts. The third team was 168pts below Munich. Munich scored 762pts. Now add the -105pts plus a mediocre cost score of 50pts ->917pts. 127pts more than the winning team...

    They were awarded a trophy for being the best (and only) international team.

    I would never honor this competition with my attendance.

    Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, this is true and we have all been experiencing the whole shit. And I don't think it would get any better within, at least , three years. The motivation for the Chinese committee to run the competition is quite utilitarian and politics-orientated, so there can be little chances that they will have any reflection of themselves. That's why I left after my whole year working for them in 2010. That's really sad.

    But when it comes to the Chinese teams, it is a different story. Actually they have made making great progress during the 3-year development. Proud to say, China is the only country that has a local translation of Matt Brown's Racecar (well that's maybe there're fewer language obstacles in other countries, but) that means the teams are developing so fast and the book can find its readers. Admittedly, everyone is eager for a better platform to demonstate themselves. But it is not only due to the fair or unfair result, it is more related to our passion for engineering and motorsports. That's why we are here.

    Regards,

    Terry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Is this gonna be your first and last post using this ID? Terry? lol

  2. #22
    Originally posted by jerry_tung:
    I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.
    Well, I'm curious about GFR's story.
    Terry Lou
    Administrator
    http://cnFSAE.com

    - 2009 - Present http://cnFSAE.com
    - 2008 - 2009 TJU Racing Team
    - 2010 Organizational Committee of Formula SAE China
    - 2012 DIAN Racing

    Click to know more about me: [url

  3. #23
    Originally posted by mscwu:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fantomas:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.
    Do you notice how he says "this year"? Adapt in his sentence reads "copy" in my opinion.

    To those of you who do not know the story behind my comment, here it is (from a reliable source):
    Last year TU Munich was asked to bring their car to FSC to do demonstration runs at the 2011 chinese competitions. TU Munich did not ask to officially compete, but was asked to hand in the necessary documents like Design Report, Cost Report etc. When they were asked, the official deadlines for these documents had already passed, but the officials of the chinese competition granted new deadlines due to the special situation and the fact that they invited them on short notice.

    TU Munich showed up on the event and it turned out that they would be integrated into the event as a normal competitor. They of course started to dominate the event and with every event, static or dynamic, in which they did well, the organisers increased the penalty for the "late" submission of their cost report. In fact it was not late, because they were granted a different deadline, but suddenly the original deadline applied. Another argument was that the car costs more than the maximum 15k$ limit in the chinese competition. So they reduced their cost score after each event by applying penalties. When they reached zero it seems that they figured out that that could not have been enough and so Munich started to score negative points in cost!
    Before the start of Endurance they already had -37pts in cost. After the Endurance this has been adjusted to -105pts in cost. During the Endurance they lapped faster than 3-5s per lap than the fastest team. Mysterically the Endurance scoring does not reflect this...
    They came second with, in fact, 205pts taken away arbitrary from them to prevent them from winning and still managed to come in second with a gap of 28pts. The third team was 168pts below Munich. Munich scored 762pts. Now add the -105pts plus a mediocre cost score of 50pts ->917pts. 127pts more than the winning team...

    They were awarded a trophy for being the best (and only) international team.

    I would never honor this competition with my attendance.

    Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, this is true and we have all been experiencing the whole shit. And I don't think it would get any better within, at least , three years. The motivation for the Chinese committee to run the competition is quite utilitarian and politics-orientated, so there can be little chances that they will have any reflection of themselves. That's why I left after my whole year working for them in 2010. That's really sad.

    But when it comes to the Chinese teams, it is a different story. Actually they have made making great progress during the 3-year development. Proud to say, China is the only country that has a local translation of Matt Brown's Racecar (well that's maybe there're fewer language obstacles in other countries, but) that means the teams are developing so fast and the book can find its readers. Admittedly, everyone is eager for a better platform to demonstate themselves. But it is not only due to the fair or unfair result, it is more related to our passion for engineering and motorsports. That's why we are here.

    Regards,

    Terry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Is this gonna be your first and last post using this ID? Terry? lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You will see . At least it is not an off-key start.
    Terry Lou
    Administrator
    http://cnFSAE.com

    - 2009 - Present http://cnFSAE.com
    - 2008 - 2009 TJU Racing Team
    - 2010 Organizational Committee of Formula SAE China
    - 2012 DIAN Racing

    Click to know more about me: [url

  4. #24
    Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
    I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.
    Well, I'm curious about GFR's story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Do you know why TUD didn't go to FSUK 2010? Politics

  5. #25
    Originally posted by jerry_tung:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
    I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.
    Well, I'm curious about GFR's story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Do you know why TUD didn't go to FSUK 2010? Politics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If you are talking about their not winning the competition, then I think you are a little bit too arbitrary cuz the documentary has showed us some accidental factor that deprived their chance to win. If their decision is not related with the score, it's gonna be better if you show the story in your mind to us cuz we are all wondering what you are talking about.
    BTW, I don't think what happened in China last year is qualified to be called "politics", it should be "impudence" or "igorance" or something else cuz neglecting the laptime and changing the endurance score is too obvious.


    Terry
    Terry Lou
    Administrator
    http://cnFSAE.com

    - 2009 - Present http://cnFSAE.com
    - 2008 - 2009 TJU Racing Team
    - 2010 Organizational Committee of Formula SAE China
    - 2012 DIAN Racing

    Click to know more about me: [url

  6. #26
    Do you know that BIT have accepted a racer with proficient driving skill, who is a student of Beijing University of Science and Technology, as a Team Member in FS Japan 2011? which is quite loss-of-face thing for all the FASErs in China.
    Really wish that BIT could behave itself well in Formula Student Germany this summer and come back with dignity.
    Originally posted by TMichaels:
    Beijing Institute of Technology, the winning team of Formula Student China 2011, will participate in this year's Formula Student Germany. I'm quite curious to see them perform, especially since they managed to win Acceleration at FS Japan 2011.

  7. #27
    Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
    I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.
    Well, I'm curious about GFR's story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Do you know why TUD didn't go to FSUK 2010? Politics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If you are talking about their not winning the competition, then I think you are a little bit too arbitrary cuz the documentary has showed us some accidental factor that deprived their chance to win. If their decision is not related with the score, it's gonna be better if you show the story in your mind to us cuz we are all wondering what you are talking about.
    BTW, I don't think what happened in China last year is qualified to be called "politics", it should be "impudence" or "igorance" or something else cuz neglecting the laptime and changing the endurance score is too obvious.


    Terry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    No, TUD did not participate.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
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    I'm not sure if there was anyone else in the past, but Xiamen University of Technology came to FSAE West in 2011. Never ran (the "local Chinese manufactured" notaKTM had, at the very least, a few issues with the fueling system having the wrong hose clamps on it, and I'm sure there were a few other issues that stopped it from getting through tech), but they did quite well in statics (28th design, 6th presentation, 20th cost).

    I'm also really hoping that the Chinese teams that are doing this are actually doing it properly and getting the engineering experience necessary to not be, in the future, using as much of the questionable engineering/business practices that Chinese companies have been known for in the past. AKA, hopefully we don't see 50 Munich cars on display with slightly lesser craftsmanship and tuning, submitted with 50 Munich cost, presentation, and design reports.
    Any views or opinions expressed by me may in no way reflect those of Stewart-Haas Racing, Kettering University, or their employees, students, administrators or sponsors.

  9. #29
    Originally posted by ZAMR:
    Now I'd really like to hear this story...

    How does a team win design, accel, skidpad, autox, and endurance and still lose the competition?
    They brought their 2010 car, which had its first event 14 months before FSC and didn't follow the rules (cost event). In my opinion, it would have been unfair if Munich had won. Think of it more of an international exchange than competing there. Further, I could name at least three European events with awards that were reserved for a certain nationality, so that's not something new.

    I would totally consider going there. The location sounds great and Munich wrote positively about the organisation. Maybe Claude can give some insight about the event and "teams from China".

    Regards
    Thomas

  10. #30
    The Chinese are just like you and I (I'm Canadian born Chinese) made of flesh and bone. They are not "bad" people, public media just like to make them look that way. I was not there, but I would imagine that the Munich Car and its results were the center of attention not only to the officials, but also every member of the 50 Chinese teams. Rigging the results midway through competition would be noticeable to everyone who was attending. They may not be able to build as sophisticated or a cars but they are not retarded.

    Like what some of you said, the likely cause is nothing more than politics. If I was the official and I had a choice of either
    a) Let Munich dominate, media go all crazy of how 50 of China's school could do that bad, pissed off sponsors, loose funding forever, and no future more FSC events
    or
    b) "Adjust" the results, keep the media attention away from that, and keep sponsors happy for future FSC events

    I would most likely choose b and take the abuse from FSAE forums. Cause in the end of the day, Formula is about the students and the learning opportunity.

    On paper Munich did not win, but come on ... if you are so upset because you don't get to go on stage with a shiny trophy, you forgot the jist of Formula. And should never attend any Formula event anyways.

    Now for all the post calling the event and official "pathetic" well please oh please don't tell anyone you are a highly educated Engineer. And please, don't tell anyone you were once part of FSAE. Cause that makes me look bad.

    AA

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