Formula SAE West 2008 Competition: - Updates, Pictures, Stories, and More.

[2BWise]

There shouldn't have to be shellshock. Last year the judges warned about the 1" rule and first thing at MIS they were checking cars before they reached the line. This didn't happen at Cali. I sat in the car several minutes and queued for autocross on Friday, passing several judges in the process, head in the same position as it always is, yet on Sat. we get nailed. Nothing was even said in the Enduro drivers meeting. There is no issue if its consistent, but the insistency to penalize teams only during Endurance is harsh and unfair.

[race2win]

maybe we should come up with some sort of hans type device to make it so your head can't move. I mean if that's what they want it would be worth looking into

The HANS Device does not limit a driver's head from moving under normal driving conditions. This would be unsafe for any driver. The device only prevents the driver's head from traveling too far from a driver's neck when involved in a colision.

I have worn the HANS in multiple types of racecars with seat angles ranging from 20 degrees plus to zero degrees. I must say the HANS has saved my neck several times. Also, being a shorter/smaller driver it helps put the shoulder belts at a more reasonable angle.

Just remember several years of etensive research, testing, and money were involved in designing the HANS and similar devices. Maybe a better solution would be looking into making cockpits more compatible with these devices.

[Gasperini]

Design feedback is up on youtube:

part 1 to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI5XwH2osDk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9-wDVaiES8

Originally posted by michaelwaltrip:
The only part of the competition I'm still confused about is how Cal Poly won endurance by that much. Not taking anything away from them, they were running fast, but not 30 seconds of raw time faster than everyone else.... I don't recall ever seeing them pass anyone. I might have missed it though.

We were running on 3 cylinders during the autocross and accel events, and that's why the endurance went a lot better. I think we passed three cars, but I'm not sure.

[Rachel]

Being in California, I'm lucky enough to see Pomona practice every year before comp. This year they were FAST. No doubt that they have made a great improvement this year.

[scottie]

As someone who's been around for going on four years, I think it was a definite mistake on the course workers' part to send Toledo when they did. Having been someone who also talked to both drivers and teams it was just a crappy situation. Toledo was out on cold tires, cold brakes and first lap for that driver. He went in a little hot and couldn't turn in. That situation has happened to every driver just in different circumstances. By nature the person following has the responsibility to watch for what is happening. Its clear there were mistakes on both peoples parts and ultimately if Toledo's A-arms were taken out WWU should have been DQ'ed. During comp I thought they should have been DQ'ed right there on the spot. But being that SAE convened a panel to vote on it then that was the right decision. Just like F1 with Ferrari/Mclaren it's the right decision and I don't think any teams knew about the panel at competition.

As far as the consistency of DQ's and the enforcement of rules period, over the last few years I feel like there has been serious lack there of. I can understand to a certain extent with the number of volunteers that help run the events. However things like scrutineering, points delegation and penalties should be of the utmost importance when it comes to consistency. Asking a team to cut out chassis bars and weld in new ones after passing structural equivalency is one of the most severe cases I have heard of but there are a lot of different occurrences of students having to completely refab some part of their car that passes at Michigan but fails at California.

Disqualifying some teams but not others for the headrest issue was seriously inconsistent this year just as ride height was last year. When teams are working for a full year let alone those teams who run two year programs, there's nothing more frustrating then getting penalized for something that another team doesn't. Not only are you taken out of the running for a top finish but then there's the realization that some teams got away with it. Texas A&M last year lifting two tires. Okay, it's up to the steward's discretion of how severe it is but things like that are what make me upset.

Then theres the points delegation. This year design judges, dont know if it was head design judge's decision, kind of doubt it, decided that the top teams were not "up to par" so they did not award the full amount of points for design. If it does say somewhere in the rules that they can delegate as many points as they feel to the winner than someone please post a quote. In this year's case those ten points would have made a huge difference considering the top four teams were within 20points of each other. That would be like saying that because the total elapsed time of the top cars at endurance was a lot slower than the previous years' cars everyone gets 20 points less. Obviously it isnt the same thing but its the same principles.

Sometimes i feel like they forget how much time and effort goes into these cars. To be disqualified for something or losing points can be devastating. MIS is a great example of how other teams as well as myself feel. The banking destroyed most teams' cars. One team cracked their chassis, another buckled a pushrod and tons of other teams destroyed their cars at comp. To my knowledge it says nothing in the rules about having to be ready for a transition onto a 18degree banking. I understand that our cars should be able to handle certain courses but we are just starting to get to that point with comp where they are throwing elevation changes and what not at us. When it takes this long to design and fab a car i think SAE needs to spend some more time assesing track layout and other issues that could potentially knock out a team.

I would like to add though that I am more than grateful for the opportunity to participate in something this great throughout the entirety of my collegiate career. I cannot thank SAE enough for all of the opportunities that this has afforded me. This is a great program and it truly benefits us students a lot more than most realize. Just a tired (physically and mentally after last week) student's constructive criticism.

[rkellz007]

Originally posted by The Bunker:
2BWise,

On a side note, I am pretty disappointed that some one or team decided to steal all our driving stuff and Laptop with data on it while we were at the awards ceremony. For anyone that was back there and may have saw something, our stuff was in a small pile by paddock 37 if I recall correctly. Any info would be greatly appreciated and could even throw in some type of reward. Or if the person is man enough to grow up and admit to it that would be nice. I know it was not accidentally picked up as some other stuff was gone through and not taken due to low value items such as dirty clothes. Just think it's pretty ridiculous when you can't trust your stuff at comp!!!

Losing your stuff was definitely a bummer, I felt bad for your team when I heard what happened. I had a strange incident while setting up for design finals (I am with UW) which may, I hope, help explain the situation.

We rolled the car into the bay and brought in our design boards. Most spectators were very courteous about staying out of the bay and/or evacuating when asked. However, there was one gentleman in his mid-twenties, who did not respond positively when I asked him to step away from the car so that we could set up. He acknowledged my request with a "yeah, okay" but kept moving in closer. Suddenly I found myself chest to chest with the fellow at the back of our car. He looked up at me and asked if I were looking for a fight. VERY STRANGE. After explaining that we needed room to work and that we would be docked if there were excess people in our bay he reluctantly moved outside but continued to crowd our bay.

His response pulled me out of "get setup for design" mode and into "what the h-e-double-hockey-sticks is going on here" mode. It was then that I noticed a few more peculiar things. The guy was ripped. No shirt, shorts, and flip-flops. Clearly not dressed like a competitor. No wrist band. He was there with a few other guys with a similar demeanor.

For a moment after I put all the pieces together I was a little afraid for my safety.

I moved onto another tack with the guy. "where are you from (as in which school)," I asked. "Around someplace" was his response. "wow, that car looks really fast!" he said. I continued to chat for a moment. Nothing very sophisticated from him.

Site control for these events is pretty open. I think its fair to believe that everyone on all of the teams is there to compete, has good intentions, and can be trusted in a pit environment where people leave their equipment unattended. That said, there is nothing to keep local crim's away or to ID and remove if they show. I would worry that a small group, having had good luck pilfering this year, may be back in greater numbers with more organization next year.

Aside from that, comp was great fun!

Western v Toledo: bummer any way you slice it.
Headrests: We were almost caught by this (fortunately we were saved by our car stopping on track), I would have accepted the penalty. We all have fair warning and plenty of time before comp to address. No excuses.
Derek at WSU: Bummer about the running problems. You guys have done a lot with a little over the last couple of years: impressive
WWU: you guys keep making life tougher in the NW. Really enjoyed testing together this year!

ryan

http://home.comcast.net/~jackbloomberg/site/?/page/WPOAA295XKN150876

[Charlie]

Originally posted by scottie:
Then theres the points delegation. This year design judges, dont know if it was head design judge's decision, kind of doubt it, decided that the top teams were not "up to par" so they did not award the full amount of points for design. If it does say somewhere in the rules that they can delegate as many points as they feel to the winner than someone please post a quote. In this year's case those ten points would have made a huge difference considering the top four teams were within 20points of each other. That would be like saying that because the total elapsed time of the top cars at endurance was a lot slower than the previous years' cars everyone gets 20 points less. Obviously it isnt the same thing but its the same principles.

4.5.11 Scoring
Scoring will be from 0 to 150 pts. at the judges discretion.

The judges felt that all cars were lacking, on all three cars, the judges found things they felt should not be present on a winning car, it was a unanimous decision to not award full points.

Dynamic event points are spelled out in the rules that the fastest car gets full points, the remainder of the cars points are calculated from that. Static events do not have this limitation (Cost does not award full points if I recall correctly).

Cars should be ranked relatively. The judges decide that ranking. The cars in finals were not far enough ahead of the rest of the field to justify a 30 point spread.

[chuckBYU]

Does anyone have the full results sheets? Thanks.

[Nihal]

Anyone have pictures up? James? Dan? I didn't really get to see many of the other cars on track that week.

[wingman]

How about feedback on

the new dynamic area layout?

autocross course?

endurance course?

Anyone have and willing to share in car data from either event? average speed, top speed lap times etc....