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View Full Version : Jaguar up for sale



jack
09-19-2004, 09:50 PM
ford is pulling the plug on jaguar F1 and Cosworth it seems. time to hedge your bets for cars on the grid in 2005...18, 14, 12??

Eddie Martin
09-19-2004, 11:26 PM
If Red Bull or Arden (F3000) doesn't buy it there may only be 18 cars. Which would mean all the top teams would have to run a third car.
I think HSBC, Becks and another one of jaguar's sponsors wanted to pull out of the team even before this announcement. I wonder where Wurz, Davidson, Luzzi and Coulthard will end up now.

The new rules are interesting but i think they should limit the wings to two plane constant cross section items with flat end plates and ban the little winglets on the back of the side pods and bargeboards. As well as move the rear wings forward and the front wings up and reduce the size of diffusers like they are looking at already. This would reduce downforce a lot and give the smaller teams a chance of being up the front even though they don't have the latest wind tunnels. Yes the big teams would still be at the front but you wont have to spend as much money to be on the grid and with in 107% of the leader.

I know Ferrari don't like it but in season testing needs to be controlled and restricted a lot more. I'd say 40, 2 car, test days would be fine in season and unlimited in the winter testing period. One of things i think Ferrari have really benefited from is the huge amount of testing they do. Nothing goes on the car until it is bullet proof reliable.
Ferrari win because they are the best and Mclaren and Williams have dropped the ball in the last couple of years. But to stop more and more teams going out of business and get a healthy field of cars on the track they need to cut costs. The general public don't see all the testing that is done but it costs a lot of money to do. Restrict the testing, have more practice time at the grand prix and more grand prix in the year because that is the only time the public see the cars and sponsors logos.

PatClarke
09-20-2004, 02:05 AM
Well Eddie, it's the beginning of the end for F1 as we know it, and not before time. Jaguar is the first domino. Minardi and Jordan will follow quickly as the subsidies for their Ford/Cosworth engines will evaporate. Cosworth itself may well be at risk, the racing division at least.
F1 has been unsustainable and almost irrelevant over the last decade or so. The inability of the rulemakers to make the needed changes (ie, the lunatics running the asylum) has seen to that. Any race series controlled by the competitors is doomed to sink in oblivion...see CART/Indycars/Champcars or whatever they are called this week.
Look then at NASCAR. Sure it is technically dumb, but blooming as a business. Why?? Because, like it or not, it is run by a benevolent dictator.
From the ashes of F1 will emerge a new premier open wheel formula, one that will hopefully have more in common with cars than aircraft.
The simple formula to make Grand Prix racing work is for it to "GROW" That is, Get Rid of Wings
Oh, and the other thing. Have every control of the car connected mechanically to the driver.
No doubt we will discuss this on Friday http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
PDR

Eddie Martin
09-20-2004, 03:32 AM
Yeah formula 1 has become like british touring cars were a couple of years ago, too expensive and over the top. I really hope it doesn't end altogether as it is really the most prestigious form of motorsport. When bernie sold f1 to the banks and stopped paying attention to f1 it was when things started to slide.

WRC is the most closely related to road cars but unfortunately due f1's hunger for money and publicity over the last couple years it has lost some manufactures. It is the only real win on sunday sell on monday category, with the impreza and lancer.

Hopefully Max Mosley can get things back under control. You should be able to run an F1 team on $US100m with about 200 staff total for engine and chassis, not $US500m and 800+ staff. The mechanical should be more important than the aero but every decision they make is based on aero. Going that fast aero will always be important but looking at the changes from late 80's f1 cars to now is obviously gone to far in the wrong direction.

RiNaZ
09-20-2004, 02:48 PM
GORW?? now, that would really have the open wheel formula closer to aircraft rather than cars!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PatClarke
10-01-2004, 11:13 PM
Mmmmmm, and now there will be no British Grand Prix. Another domino falls!
For those who came in late (most who peruse this forum, I suspect) The British Grand Prix was the first ever World Championship GP, and was held at Silverstone.

I guess Bernie, Max and their cronies subscribe to Henry Fords dictum "History is bunk"!

Well, I suspect history will not be too kind to their memory.
PDR

PatClarke
10-03-2004, 02:53 AM
Oh, and just for those of you who think I am a pessimist, just take a look at this article in the Economist a while ago. Then think about it a little. I don't know why we all don't boycott F1 immediately.

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=6012

Pat

Al
10-03-2004, 04:41 AM
I agree Pat. When teams have power to make decisions that affect the running of the sport it is the beginning of the end. Too many vested interests. Top level motorsport is about entertainment, and engineering is only the means to generate that entertainment.
There will never be consensus among teams to ban testing, or use control tyres etc. because someone will inevitably lose out.

I dont know about banning wings though, I think they get a bit of a harsh wrap at times. Sure reduce the size and location, but a full ban. Although I may be biased, I am quite fond of aero devices and their effect! Heck it turned our car from being quite ordinary to a contender.

EgyptianMagician
10-06-2004, 05:31 AM
That was a phenomenal article ! .. Thanks for the education man!

John Bucknell
11-16-2004, 05:10 PM
From the sound of things, Austrian sports drink maker Red Bull purchased the assets of Jaguar F1.

Also, Cosworth Racing was bought by the owners of the Champ Car World Series.

GTmule
11-16-2004, 05:50 PM
"You mean, the champ car world series: powered by ford (wait, cosworth http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )"

I guess my red Bull F1 ride is gonna finally open up, I kept seeing those commercials on SPEED, I assume they want me to drive for 'em, since they showed me the commercial......right....guys????